Pull out

[cragginshred]

I have been working on dropping my hips attempting to allow my COM to lead the way as opposed to just leaning back which is how I used to try and put the ski on edge in my pull out. How does this look?

 

[kfennell]

Top pro told me yesterday something that fixed this for me, I was trying to do the same thing, Instead just stand as tall as you can, then taller, literally on the balls of your feet, and kind of just fall away from the wakes, definately do not drop your hips to do anything though, your knees and hips should be WAY straighter there.

[ozski]

I hate the idea of dropping hips on the pull out. You should be tall, still and stacked and over your binders.

[cragginshred]

Interesting,.. I watch a lot of skiing video and Nate, Freddy, Regina, TW, on and on do not have straight legs. In fact they drop their hips overtly. There are a couple of styles out there and the straight up and down knees straight does not work for me. @kfennell JimBrake made the statement that helped me re think this 'falling away is putting the brakes on while trying to accelerate'

@ozski the rope is forming a line from my ankles/hips/and shoulders shooting for what TW would coach me to do!

[cragginshred]

This is what I am shooting for!

 

 

[bishop8950]

There are different ways to get the pull out done. What are you trying to achieve by modification of the pull out?

 

Willing to bet @kfennell was being coached by TW on the falling away stuff. I have also been coached by him and have done it ever since. There is a huge difference between letting your self fall away (to the side) and falling back (back on the rope). I know Jim Break pretty well and would bet he meant falling back is like putting on the breaks - and it is.

 

You can lead with your COM without dropping your hip and this is what I try to do. Stay tall. Let your self fall directly left or it may even feel like a little forward and left. Once I have started to move left and I feel the rope tension I try to press my hip forward further without dropping or squating. My goals are A) to have a simple move out B ) get up on the boat with as little effort and disruption to the boat as possible C ) keep the rope 100% tight and D) just start out moving on my ski the best way I can to set up the pass

 

Come to LS sometime and we can talk more about it :-)

[ToddL]

I think you are on the right track, but are using words that sound like something bad. You also said "letting your COM lead" and that is desired. I also agree with Kevin about wanting to be tall. So how do you do both? Get tall before making the motion out bound. Then, lead with your COM to move out bound. I think about pointing my hips towards the left shore or at about 11 o'clock. Thus, there is a subtle movement of my hips to the left to lead my COM. I definitely do not want my hips to drop back at all. I want to stay tall. That's why using the word "dropping" when describing hips isnt good. "Leading" works better.

[Luzz]

@cragginshred food for thought, I hope it will help you:

- The picture of Freddie that you posted comes from a 1-handed gate. Do you do 1- or 2-handed gates? I personally believe the rationale behind the pullout changes a LOT between the two.

- I would be very careful in thinking about dropping your hips. A solid, stacked pullout will have your hips leading the way. The risk of thinking about dropping hips is squatting, which will kill the acceleration you are looking to achieve in the pullout.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@cragginshred ....Keep in mind, the ski is "DUMB." It only responds to Weight Shift, and has no clue if you are tall or compressed. It takes forward weight to accelerate it out ahead of you, however you accomplish that.

 

I do my gate very similar to Freddy. I start with a very forward position for the pullout, with bent knees over toes, hips and shoulders over knees, and handle down, elbows tight to my side .Weight is on the ball of the front foot. Right before the 55's, I fall towards 11 o'clock, leading with hips, COM..... To get the COM forward, I have to twist clockwise, which will cause me to compress. I am not trying to squat, I am trying to get COM forward as far as I can to get the ski to accelerate UP on the Boat as fast as I can. I cast the ski out with the return load from ZO into the one handed gate, just like you see Freddy do. This allows you to start with a lot of angle, and when you fall in for the gate set angle without ZO knowing your there yet, so you are stacked again with forward COM through the gate. to cast out into the Reverse C to set up for one ball.

 

My goal is to accelerate up on the boat as "FAST" as I can..I don't think pull out wide, my mind set is to accelerate up on the boat as far as I can, as fast as I can. I start at 32 off and changing to this mind set was a huge improvement to my skiing to allow me to start with more angle.

 

NOTE.....If you are up on the boat with a tight line, you WILL BE WIDE...The opposite, is to just lean back hard on the pullout to think I want to get wide..The consequence being you can get wide, but be NARROW, and not up on the boat...If you start narrow, you will probably continue that way.

[The_MS]

How do you gain momentum to get up along side the boat at the end of the pass?

[Ed_Johnson]

@MS .... When I first read that, I thought what in the world does that have to do with the theme of this post, which is the "Pull Out !!

 

After thinking about it, and questioning whether it was a sarcastic comment to be funny, or a serious comment, I decided to answer it either way.

 

In order to "Finish" high up on the boat you must "Start With Angle in Order to Finish With Angle."

 

The momentum you seek must be a product of "Cross Course Angle and NOT Down Course Angle." The same for SPEED.... Cross Course Speed and not Down Course Speed....Since speed equals angle, I believe Freddie demonstrates this perfectly.

 

 

[The_MS]

@Ed_Johnson My point was that it is the same move on the other side of the wake with opposite movement.

Marcus Brown explained it pretty well in his one handed gate presentation in the Edged in Water DVD

[RichardDoane]

@ms - I try to coach good pull out skills to new skiers at every drop, there's nothing worse than dragging people at the end of the lake who don't know how to get up on the boat when dropping to shorten/speed-up/ or just let the water settle

[jimbrake]

First, in response to the thread title....that's what she said.

 

Second, @richarddoane....me, too. The pull out to drop at the end of the lake is another chance to practice stance, moving your COM, acceleration, etc. Drives me nuts when I see people pull out and do the pull on the rope thing as if that's what they need to do to get up on the boat.

 

@cragginshred - yeah, no dropping hips. Just move left and forward like @bishop8950 said.