USAWS / AWSA - Abandon or Revolution?

[MrJones]

ChadW

Just a question. You said your wife and kids "enjoy getting out on the lake". Any chance you could get them interested enough to ski tournaments?

 

There are people who come as "singles" to tourneys, but I would say that one of the strengths of tournament skiing is that it is family friendly. We often hear from friends who have kids in baseball, soccer, whatever over the summer lamenting sitting at the field/park all day being bored. We practice and ski tournaments as a family. The age division thing works out great. There are usually other kids there for ours to play with. My older two like to sit in the tower and judge with me.

 

I'm not saying it's for everyone, but as we know skiing is addictive. Get them out there in a novice/class C tourney and see what happens.

 

My $0.02

[LeonL]

@Chadw, if you go to a tournament, participants don't have to "sit around all day". There is plenty to do without being a rated official. Just ask one of the sponsoring club members, they'll find you meaningful work. Or you can join someone on a tower and learn to judge. There's a lot to do to prevent sitting all day. Participants sitting all day is a big reason why the workers get a case of burnout.

[The_MS]

Every kid I see at tourneys are happy as heck. Every parent I see are happy as heck at about 6pm when the kids are worn out and cant keep their eyes open from having fun all day. I have never understood the comments of boredom for the kids. I saw Josh Harris sleeping in the front of Lonnie's pick up while he was pulling promo boat out of the water after the tourney. He was soaking wet wrapped in a towel.

[swc5150]

I've shared @chadw's view on tournaments as well. Once my daughter gets old enough, and if she's interested in skiing, I'd like to get involved in tournaments. My wife is on board, so that's a plus. We're lucky to have one near our home, plus @MS's lake isn't too far away.

[gt2003]

Never been to a tournament. Is it an environment where you could bring a portable grill and make a day of it? Maybe have a specified grilling area (?insurance). Grill, eat, watch the event and ski when it is your turn. Maybe if there were more activities to keep the kids busy such as inflatables/play areas. Just throwing ideas out there. I honestly don't know what the sites are like so just ideas to play with.

 

[swc5150]

The one site I visited was 5 guys talking about wing angles. Not fun for me at the time. It sounds like @MS's site is much more fun than that. Kids playing, grilling, parents having a couple beers after skiing...that I would enjoy.

[The_MS]

We have a Rave raft to jump on, bike paths, tennis court, basket ball court and are about 1 mile from the Douglas trail. Normally there are about 3-5 motor homes loaded with kids that have no issues keeping busy all day. (they ski to)

[bigtex2011]

My family loves skiing tourneys. My kids bring all there latest toys and gadgets and we typically show up 10 minutes late. Our 3 year old keeps asking to go Ha stin(Austin), or Houston or Pee port(Shreveport) We like to ski. People like Erb, Karen L, JD, Trent, Binkley, R Johnson, the Ives, marc Austin, the Jones', the Stanges, chad bako, chad scott, the Larsons, even Shane Hill :make it fun for us. (so many more) I don't like how i have to go to regionals just to go to nationals. But maybe that will change. We aren't going to quit. Heck, I'm trying to figure out how to put on a pro tourney.

 

Skiing is fun, tourneys are fun if you bet a 6 pack you can beat ur friend or you see horton park a 4 wheeler against the john door while MS is doing god knows what in the can.(or your buddies put your ski in a tree when ur on the starting dock.

 

changes, yep we need them. But we ski on MF's. (My Friends) :)

 

[The_MS]

@bigtex2011 That was @Horton that got locked in the porta poddy. @skidawg needs to re post that pic. @Horton bribed @Mrs_MS to get my silver Strada out of hiding and signed it with a sharpie. I did not see his signature until I got out of the water for my set, nice surprise.

[bigtex2011]

good times

[klindy]

@bigtex2011 guess I didn't make the short list...... :neutral:

[disland]

I am doing more tournaments this year not less

[bigtex2011]

and @KLINDY big time. who else would sight our site in while my back was all jacked up. this buds for u

[klindy]

I hope ski more this year and spectate less. However despite it all it was still awesome to see all my "ski family" last year.

[jimbrake]

My kids have grown up at tournaments and they, too, have a great time all day. They have a group of very good "ski friends" that all hang out together at tournaments and even get together as much as possible in the offseason. It's pretty cool. Tournaments are long days for sure, but if you combine your ski rides with some helping out judging, scoring, dock starting whatever, you don't have that much down time. Now dragging a significant other there that is not that involved is another story.

 

I wish we were a little more like the rest of the world with more of a 3-event focus, but for as long as I've been involved, California in particular has always been extremely slalom-focused. I'd be OK with other formats - head to head, ability groups, other events, etc., but tournaments will always need workers and showing up to ski then leave is not great. Not sure how to avoid the time commitment of tournaments even if the format changes.

[lpskier]

There are two ski sites in NY that always seem to have a lot of kids skiing. Both sites have a BIG rope swing. I rarely see kids or big rope swings at tournaments here in Florida. I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

 

There is nothing in the AWSA rules that says the LOC can't organize "divisions" by ability level. If that's what your LOC wants to do, do it and have fun. Your score will get recorded on the ranking list by age group, but so what?

 

That said, unless you are getting recognition of some sort AT THE EVENT, like an award or even just your picture taken on the podium (which only happens at States, Regionals, Nationals and some Pro- Ams), what difference does it make? There are 30-45 skiers at a tournament. You ought to know who is at your ability level, and how you scored against them whether they are in your age group or not. If you don't know the other skiers, look at the ranking list averages, typically posted on the running order. Ability level scoring at an INT type event may make sense where you don't know the other skiers, but I don't see how it changes the experience for the typical skier unless there is recognition at the event.

 

If there is recognition at the event, please be curtious to the other skiers and stick around until the event is over and the awards given out before going home. There is not much lonelier than a podium with "missing teeth."

[lpskier]

Here's an idea: At all three event sites, give out incredibly cool awards for overall winners. Maybe that will encourage more people to trick and jump.

[DrDave]

I have been away from the discussion and catching up a bit, but I think ChadW provides excellent insight into why there isn't growing tournament participation and highlights the lack of positive reinforcement in the current format. He basically sums it up as "nothing in it for me". (paraphrasing what his comments tell me as to why he doesn't ski in tournaments..not an actual quote). He even say he would be more likely to ski in an ability based tournament. But instead of listening to what he has to say, it seems to me that many give him advice on how to "make" the current format work for him. This is what I see coming form AWSA officials and people in charge as well.

 

That isn't going to work! The AWSA is a business of sorts. They are providing a "service" that they are trying to sell. But instead of doing like successful businesses do, and providing what the MAJORITY want. They are providing what they feel the majority SHOULD want. Recipe for ultimate failure. IMO

[Dusty]

A lot of us have posted our dissatisfaction(s) with the oppositional(?) direction(s) HQ often seems to take. I have seen a bunch of good ideas suggested on this forum. I agree that by-law changes need to be made. Maybe adding "ombudsmen" or "members at large" or whatever to Regional councils and the national board could infuse new energy, and a sense of purpose, and give some relevancy to how most of us out here perceive HQ's disconnect with membership. Decisions have been made that seem illogical, perhaps tyrannical, and fiscally irresponsible.

 

As far as folks feeling intimdated by tournament skiing- I am sorry that we haven't done enough to welcome them at tournaments. They are great family 'functions'. Bring the family, the grill and watch. Tournaments around here often amount to camping in tents, trailers or RV's. The social part may be as important as the skiing in some ways.

Most of us compete against ourselves, and are not headed to Regionals and Nationals. Ask to help and we will find work for you, and keep you involved. The officials are all volunteers and probably started just like you- If you have questions, please ask them- we will try to answer. We can do better and I think we will. We have to...

 

[Jody_Seal]

Every year these same bitching, complaining, arm chair quarterbacking and general dissatisfaction exudes from this web site! and every year I suggest to you all to go to your State meeting -make a change! Go to your regional meeting- Make a change! Go to the National meeting- Make a change!

At our Florida State meeting last July out of nearly 600 members we barely had a quorum!

Nothing is going to happen out of this web site unless You participate and make a change.

Votes make the change in our sport but if you don't show up then the status quo rules all!

[randy meny]

Just quit like me, at the lake most days April to October. No tournament's, no USA water ski. Maybe if it goes back to awsa or a new organization

 

[MillerTime38]

@Bigtexas2011 I think you still owe me a couple 6 packs....

[GregDavis]

Right on Jody, it amazes me, that some people bitch, complain, have tons or ideas, lots to suggest we do this do that, etc. but like you said, They never show up to make a difference or make a change.

[MrJones]

Okay. How 'bout this.

 

"It is what it is, accept it and move on."

[randy meny]

Greg, how do you change when the same people run things. The names stay the same, they just change roles. Need new faces

[Mateo_Vargas]

So when did USA Waterski jump the shark? Man I crack myself up sometimes.

[boarditup]

Getting back to the original question - I don't think we need either a revolution or abandonment. We do need a return to basics - the fun of waterskiing and the organized elements of the sport. What happens in every organization over time is that the rules, expectations, and bureaucracy get built up over time. Situations happen and they have a rule or a control measure to prevent it from happening again. That creates structure and burdens that prevent flexability and innovation. What people are asking for is the adaptability and fun back. The various officials and reps see a return of the "cheating" or the "wild west" of the early days. But, the early days of any sport is what people long for - to be on the cutting edge, the early adopter, the pioneer. Getting that feel back is tough in a mature sport. Other sports create new events, packaging, and allow for innovation. Skateboaring was dead until vert was introduced. That brought along street riding and make it "cool" and popular again. Originally, skateboarders had to compete through a slalom course for time - everyone hated it except for the judges and leadership. The organized sport almost died until a young man - Tony Hawk - brought it back on vert.

 

AWSA and USA WS have to be responsive to the two biggest events out there - slalom and wakeboard. Most families that have more than one sport have those two in the family. Keeping 3-event on life support is great for the traditionalists, but it does not have the legs to adapt to the changing times. Wakesurf will get nearly as big as wakeboarding was in a short time, and then it will fade a bit, too.

 

So, we need to make it easy for the Local Organizers to put on events that cross disciplines and don't rely on so many people with qualifications that take longer to achieve than a MBA. Strip it down, get back to basics. Sure, people will get it wrong sometimes. Extreme Type-A personalities will find a way to game the system and cheat. It will come out in the end - and they will be mocked or taught. This is supposed to be a fun sport. Only a few (pros? what does that really mean) have money on the line and we have a highly developed system for those tournaments. We need the flexability of the F(un) tournments with the recordkeeping of the CELR. Have a rule that you cannot get to nationals without at least one ELR tournament for verification of the other scores. Otherwise, lets get people out of the towers and socalizing with the new skiers and riders. Head to Head, yes. Turn and burn, yes. Two-event with slalom and wakeboard, yes. Let have more fun (and not just for 30-60 YO, Type-A males) and draw more people in.

[bigtex2011]

@ millertime38 I dont remember owing u beer. but i am old and forgetful. i think you are somewhat responsible for taking me out last year with the busted ankle. i'm very competitive and i take betting beer seriously. i was worried u died. ur a hard person to track down

[behindpropellers]

@boarditup you echo my feelings. What I find very annoying is that they actually called me one day out of the blue. One of my complaints was how tough it was to get and maintain a "rating". They said...."yes we get that alot"

[ToddL]

Maybe more people would participate in meetings if they were all offered as web conferences. The number one barrier to the Nationals participation issue was cost of travel. Same is probably true for meetings. With GoToMeeting, Skype and teleconference bridge services so readily available, why are we using these tools? I know Skype has been used here and there. Make that a requirement for all regional and national meetings.