Administrators Horton Posted December 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2014 Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 20, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2014 @adamcord see anything interesting about the spray at the tail of Manon's ski? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 @Horton -not @adamcord but i bet that tail spray is a leaky fin block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 oh goody a thread about smear thats not too advanced for me. i think this photo from waterskis on line mag illustrates what i think * smear * is better than any i've seen. notice the track showing unmistakable tail slide well before the buoy and last half of the turn - photo is on line here - http://www.waterskimag.com/olgallery/58930/58945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted December 21, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted December 21, 2014 Right at 18 seconds you can see it in motion. And if anyone has a way to slow motion it..all the better. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller AdamCord Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 @Horton are you asking about the water moving through the fin slot? What I see there looks pretty normal and won't have a big effect on the ski. What is interesting is that it looks like there might be a bevel transition on that ski at the toes of the back foot. Something is causing that spray pattern. Also the water coming off the tail is completely turbulent. That's not particularly abnormal, it's just cool note (the flow past the fin/tail is NOT laminar). The flow off the left side of the ski for the most part IS laminar. Ok I'll say one thing about "smear". Now the ski is ALWAYS sliding, so it isn't a question of is the ski smearing or not, it's a question of how much and when. If I understood what Rossi was originally talking about, it was the idea that the ski rotates (smears, washes, slides, whatever) to the point that the tail is wider than your feet when you reach the ball. This is mostly a function of position relative to the boat, and the speed it took to get there. It is not about shoving the tail out. If you're coming into the ball late and narrow, the ski will still be pointing outbound as you come to the ball. If you get high on the boat early, you're already falling back on the boat when you reach the ball, and there is more time for the ski to rotate before the ball. Nate is the king of this and that's a big part of why his turns look so relaxed compared to most other skiers. He doesn't have to rotate the ski as much at the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 It looks to me like maybe there's an SFE on the left side of the ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 I was thinking Side Force Enhancer too @dchristman. The disturbance is pretty abrupt and in exactly the right spot for an SFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 21, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 21, 2014 I will bet any of you a case of scotch that Manon is not using an SFE Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 So not an SFE, a new FSE from MC - the French Side Enhancer, built into the mold? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not LFF RFF specific - look at the line in the spray off the right side. Looks to be more than a bevel transition as @AdamCord suggested, but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller AdamCord Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 You would be amazed what a small bevel change will do to the spray pattern. There's definitely no SFE or any other contraption on that ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 Could it be buckles on her front hard shell dragging? I hate that about hardshells. Drag, grab, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted December 21, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 21, 2014 @jimbrake I bet that's it @horton I love that pic. Tells you a lot about how a ski works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted December 22, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted December 22, 2014 I would love to know if my buckles drag. I cannot feel if they do but cannot say they don't. Would make for a great picture if it could be captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted December 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 22, 2014 @Horton is a putz. That's a smear I can prove! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2014 @wish I know for sure that ill advised carp crap on your boots will for sure catch water. The Radar boots from a few years ago had a flap that goes over your fore foot. I cut it off and did a crap job once. I left what amounted to a scoop on my boot. There is no question that it caught water and made the ski drag at apex. (the fix was easy but the lesson was clear.) Now if buckles catch water and make a difference I do not know. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2014 My guess is if we saw a lot of shots from this angle we would see similar spray patterns. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted December 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 22, 2014 @Horton keep the carp off your bindings!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DmaxJC_ski Posted December 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 22, 2014 Kinda off topic a bit on this but who notices the shadow in the spray just off the toes of Manons back foot? That's a pretty significan "m" in the spray, just thought I'd throw that out there. A bit ironic I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JAS Posted December 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 22, 2014 Cool picture. Also gives me a great visual of why shoulder rotation toward wake and early loading puts you on tail of your ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted December 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 22, 2014 Based on the width of the channel made by the ski at the ball, he was already well into his turn at the ball. It must have felt like he backsided it even though he's already 10 ft down course and hasn't yet hooked up. It really shows you how much you're moving down course even when everything is working like it should. @Horton, what is the line length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2014 @DefectiveDave first so all - if we are talking about the first image in this thread "He" is a pretty young French woman who looks like this Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2014 @DefectiveDave Second - part of what is interesting about this image is that you can not see the orientation of the course. I think she did back side the ball is early and is not really down course but from this angle I think it is impossible to tell. There is no way to tell the line length. For a photo shoot I would guess 32 off (ish). If you are saying that we are all going down course more than we think then I would say you are right on target. If I am correct about the way I see this image - the fact that she appears to not be hooked is a credit to her skills. She is one of the best female skiers in the world. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted December 23, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 23, 2014 @Horton, Ughhhh, now I feel like an asshole. I know there are so many great female skiers and I still immediately assume it's a dude when I don't recognize a name. Anyway, it's a great photo and to me it looks like she's absolutely smashing the turn. That being said she still slides a lot in the water and goes somewhat down course despite being an amazing skier. It seems like a function of ski geometry more than anything else. The ski can only sink so much and therefore the water it can displace is limited, thus slowing the transfer of momentum which allows the skier to turn. I don't think that the sliding is reducing her cross-course velocity, but I do think it is reducing her space before each buoy somewhat. At the line length in the photo I'm sure it's a non-issue, but surely at 39.5 and 41 off every little bit counts. Why not design skis to sink deeper in the turns and reduce the distance lost down course? Could it be a balancing act, maybe the features needed to make a ski turn on a dime reduce cross-course velocity? Based on Manon's balance and composure in that image I'm sure she could easily handle a more aggressive turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 23, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted December 23, 2014 @DefectiveDave don't feel bad. You gave me an excuse to post a picture of her without looking like a lecher. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstateskier Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 @Horton just smeared @DefectiveDave. Pun intented! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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