Baller jedgell Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Check this out, new Mapple ski! Looks awesome. I've been on the 6.0 since last spring, best ski I've had. Interesting theory behind the design, can't wait to try one. Â http://www.mappleskis.com/products/torque.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 10, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted August 10, 2014 An observation and a couple question. I have never seen Andy ski with "less load". To me he loads more then most but is the ultimate at dealing with every bit of it off the second wake. His video even speaks to that.  So what does allowing a ski to twist do? I know I'm very wrong but seems counter productive. And not a big success for Goode. Patent pending is interesting. Any other ski company have a patent on the entire design of the ski itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jedgell Posted August 10, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I don't think the Goode Twist twisted during skiing. I think it came out if the mold with the twist. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Rup Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Picked up a 6.0 a couple of weeks ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Patents expire after 17 years (typically), so if anybody did have a general water ski patent, it's long gone. Fascinating idea from Mapple. Looking forward to hearing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Anybody else wonder if he got to 5 ball at 43 off in that video? Wow!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 @Than_Bogan‌ @gator1‌ 1st thing I thought about when I saw this was secondary angle of attack thread. By twisting this essential creating just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavan Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yeah I'm with @Texas6 here, because man he looked really really good coming out of 4 ball!! @43off none the less!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 @Texas6‌ I wouldt be surprised if he ran it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmaster Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 All I know is that all the Mapple team members are skiing their best on the new design for a few months now. Time will tell, but who would not to add a few balls to their PB? Patent pending means that an application for this invention is pending, that the priority rights are reserved worldwide and that Andy is serious about this. Can't wait to try it out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 10, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2014 I saw this the other day and thought "I wonder what is under the blue tape?" Never would have guessed.   Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 10, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2014  Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScarletArrow Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I find the marketing conversation around Mapple Skis interesting. Andy specifically addressed the question that seems to surround his ski design the most - "Do I have to change my skiing to be on this ski?" It's a crazy paradox for Andy - he's the best skier in the world because he can ski like no one else can, but when he designs skis people are afraid to give it a go because they think it's designed for him alone. If Nike said that Michael Jordan was involved in the actual designed of his shoes, no one would have said they can't wear them because they can't play like Jordan. And the paradox is that everyone knows that Andy is offering genuine value and substance over just stylistic tweak. He even says (paraphrase), "I'm excited because... we've got something that is making a difference." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Interesting, the one thing I didn't like my 6.0 was that I couldn't ski it aggressively. When trying to get through 28off I would try to really lean hard and it would continue to gain angle and pull the handle out of my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller disland Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I wonder who is manufacturing the new design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 @gregy‌ yep. If I understand the video he has put a soft torsional flex with a stiff longitudinal flex. This allows the ski to address my theoretical concerns about over-rolling the ski up onto its edge, and stalling it, by letting a portion of the ski stay flatter. Airplane wings do this by a designed in twist of the wing called "washout" which means the tips of the wings are built with a slightly less angle of attack than the root of the wing. That way when the wing stalls due to too much angle of attack the wingtip is still flying so it's a gradual stall. Same with this ski. You don't have to be on the razors edge to get max lift a 1/4 degree away from a stall angle of attack (heavy on line) Darn that Andy Mapple. I'd have figured this out in a century or so.  I want one. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 @gregy‌ And also explains what I was seeing watching Jeff ski at the big dawg. The ski was running flat, but the ski was helping him get flat while holding angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Anyone ski on one yet? There out now! Spill the beans. Gator, great observation of with Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 @E_T I have to agree. That 1-4 proves it's a runnable pass, he was in good shape at 4 ball. Just 4 buoys is a big enough tease for the skiing community and clever not to show all 6 - but if he runs that pass in a tourney on his new ski - he'll have a marketing wet dream. @disland, when he was here giving lessons last month he acted pleased with his radar manufacturing relationship. I doubt he switched mfr's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 10, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2014 @disland‌ Yes Radar  Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstateskier Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Turning 4@43... wow Andy is still skiing really really well. Can't imagine he didn't at least see a piece of 5 ball. Has anyone ever been captured on video running anything beyond 2.5@43? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Johnson Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I wonder how well Dual Lock will work with the big slot in the middle ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I want one. @Horton, I need a new handle. Should we put it to a vote or just start using my actual name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I think if you watch the end of that vid, he was in good shape into 4 but I think went down just after 4. Sure looks run-able for him...G.O.A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 I remember there was a thread on here a year or so ago that Andy mentioned 43 would be ran someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted August 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2014 Talked to Andy about 43 this summer. He said the course is narrower now than when he set the world record at 1@43 because of the bouy height. For every inch lower the ball is the skier can be 4 inches narrower. Interesting to think about. Asked him his best at 43 and he smiled and said I've gotten a piece of 5. Made me feel like he may have seen the exit gates but didn't want to say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rq0013 Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 Didnt Radar learn about this twist with the 2012 and 2013 stradas?? The 2012 strada, they made the ski torsionally stiffer to resist the twist, they later found out it put too many people on the back of the ski and wasnt the answer. The 13 orange strada was just the opposite, allowing the ski to torsionally flex more, but "controlling" it. Thats why the 13 strada was the best I think, it turned in better and came back to center easier. Mapple took it to another level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 11, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2014 @rq0013‌ I am under the impression that Radar and Mapple do R&D separately. Pretty much every company in the sport has worked on torsional flex in the last few years.   Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @6Balls, I agree, I think he went down also - appears he turned in and fell just after the ball - but that's a runnable pass watching that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstateskier Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If he ran it Deena isn't saying... B) http://greyststudio.com/malibu/mapple_fb.jpg  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JWebSki Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 If you slow down the video and go frame by frame you can see he popped the handle going around 4. Amazing skiing 3.5 @ 43off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Alvin_Neff Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @gregy- I rode the T2 back in June and now have a T1! The ski turns effortlessly and comes back under you without a feeling of load like Andy said. It also seems to ride a bit deeper that my 6.0 which feels more stable to me. I will be at the booth tomorrow and here at Nationals all week of you want to talk more. Of course Andy will really be happy to spill the scoop now. It was hard keeping this design a secret, I have seen it being developed for over a year! Exciting stuff for Mapple Skis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @Than_Bogan -I have a friend who owns some patents and for a long time the expiration period as been 20 years from earliest filing date. he tells me the limit hasnt been 17 years for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmaster Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 20 years guys. If you really want to know why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent_in_the_United_States IMO, Andy's got a patentable invention. And the next 20 years to enjoy the consequences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 There are a lot of creative minds in this industry and there's more than one way to skin a cat. I hope Andy does really well with this cause it will raise everyone's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 I stand corrected. We're dealing with some expiring patents right now at work, and of course those were under the old rules so that's what's on my mind. Also, I was accidentally right because any hypothetical waterski patent would have also been under the old rules. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller smanski Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 In the video, he missed the gates on his 43 off pass. That would be a bummer to get your gates pulled on a record setting pass. He definitely makes you want to try the ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 Never mind the missed gates, did you see how he toys with 41??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstateskier Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 gates are optional... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @smanski I've had 3 pro skiers tell me they miss 1/3 of their gates in practice because they're constantly refining the point where they roll in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 So if Jeff is on a ski that allows more torque under the bindings, wouldn't the bottom of the binding impact the torque of the ski? It looks like his standard Wiley setup, but only he knows if they have cut them down the middle or something... A solid Sequence plate lets the plate flex front to back but not sure it lets the ski twist. Â Maybe a new binding plate that allows more torque would be beneficial? I don't know, but I remember that Goode came out with the 9100 or 9500 and touted it having less torque, and I skied pretty good on both. We all know the shortcomings of his more torque ski, not to compare Andy's design to Goode, but that is what I know and have seen. Â Andy and Jeff can run into 43 on a 2x4, so when the masses start seeing crazy results, I will jump on the bandwagon.. Now if @OB ran into 41 all of a sudden, now we're talkin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Alberto Soares Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 Perfect marketing plan releasing it right at the Nationals / Big Dawg finals, I bet it will sell a lot. Can't wait to try one next October in Orlando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @Than_Bogan -' accidentally right ' is that an engineering term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @OB. I feel a plan coming together! I plan to at least ride one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 @mwetskier. Sort of. It cracks me up when people say (without irony) "I was right" when in fact the entire premise of their idea proved totally wrong and by some bizarre coincidence they came to the right answer anyhow. I tell my kids all the time "If you can't correctly explain HOW you got the answer, then I can only assume you're wrong." That's exactly the stance I have to take in any engineering meeting. And so it kind of is related to being an engineer that it's important to qualify that I came to the right answer by mistake, not because I was actually right about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Nando Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 So, between gator1's theory on roll angle and this ski design, I'm really confused- everything I thought I know about ski flex may be wrong. At least these discussions are happening before I've bought a ski, not after, I guess, but I need a new ski (when my wife tells me it's time for a new ski, I know it). Theoretically, this kind of makes sense, even if it goes against conventional ideas, but I've never been able to ski on one of Andy's designs (even after setup advice from the man himself), so if I get one, is it the soft lateral flex or some other design feature if I can't master it? Right now I'm sucking on the ski I've run my PB on so at least I know it's me- maybe I'd better just relearn how to ski before I expect a new ski to fix me... How many skis with soft torsional flex and still longitudinal will we see in a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 11, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted August 11, 2014 @OB I will be your photographer/film maker and put it all together for you and with Andy just down the road.... of course I'll need the same number of paid sets so we know you were not BSing. Makes for a better study don't you think.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 Love you both like brothers, but you're getting kinda expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted August 11, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2014 @OB‌ donate to a guy who rarely works? Haa  Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ballsohard Posted August 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted August 11, 2014 Intrested to see how this is received by the waterski world and to see how it performs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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