Splitting up M3 and M4 at nationals

[schroed]

Why is USA Waterski continuing to split up M3 and M4 at nationals between two lakes? Judging by the amount of people signed up for regionals I don't think either of those groups are going to be all that big. I realize the need to do this back when there were over 100 competitors in these divisions, but I don't think they need to do this anymore. This always seemed a bit unfair to me, makes some fairly high seeds ski early (think of the first people to ski on the higher seed lake), and takes away from some of the fun from the lower seeds skiing on a different lake. Isn't it time to move away from this?

[The_MS]

Back in my M3 days we had 110-120 skiers at nats and it was my goal to make the main lake at Oke. I made it to the main lake the next year but was 2nd off the dock. 8am on the last day of nats with only the lovely @Mrs.MS in the stands. It was a big waste of money.

[Razorskier1]

@MS -- hate to say it but that's why I don't have much desire to go to Nationals. I know that's heresy to some, but I can't see spending the money and the time to ski once in front of no one and come home. If I wait a week after nationals I can ski 6 rounds in a weekend somewhere near home and see a bunch of friends to boot.

[The_MS]

@Razorskier1 Keep your eye on the event sked. We will sanction a 6 round weekend 23-24 Aug.

@Horton beating me by 4 buoys at the Bakersfield Nats kind of put a damper on my nationals desire.

[Horton]

@ms that was the third greatest day of my life after the birth of Buford Danger Horton and the day I beat @Sethski‌

[The_MS]

I am glad I could help you out. It was still fun eating fish tacos at Lengthwise and coming home with 2 new 06 Monzas from Badal.

[Horton]

I will call in my score.

[MrJones]

I've said this before, I think MM is a bad idea. (Sorry for the off topic nature of this)

[skidawg]

SCR MM is how it should be!

[schroed]

@OB - Good point about conditions changing over time. Perhaps it may be more fair to split the group to try for more constant conditions. However, I'm not sure that the benefit of possible constant conditions out weighs the other points I was bringing up. I know a number of M3 guys that were not that happy to ski on the turnpike lake at Okeeheelee in the past. Also, conditions can often change drastically in short duration events. Case and point would be the conditions I had during my ride at Okeeheelee in the MM division compared with the top seeds a couple years ago.

 

Also, I do have my MM rating. As mentioned above, I skied in the MM division in regionals and nationals 2 years ago. This year and last year I decided to ski in M3 in order to be more competitive. Right now the cut off average for MM is 105 buoys and my average is 105.17. Hence, I'm barely making it into MM. Most of the top M3 guys that are already registered for nationals this year have averages similar to mine so I know I'm not alone. Funny thing is when I signed up for MM a couple years ago many people asked me why I wasn't skiing M3 and last year when I signed up for M3 many people were asking me why I wasn't skiing MM. Also, there's a long history of guys skiing in their age groups until they won the national title and then moving into MM. I know a similar problem exists between Open Men and the younger age groups. I personally don't have a problem with people staying in their age groups until they win nationals.

[brettmainer]

Schroeder, while the lazy part of me wishes you were skiing MM for the Western Regionals, it cheapens the M3 podium to have the top skiers ski MM. I am actually disappointed to see a couple of the other top skiers (Lafavor and Milford) not signed up and Menasci injured. If I get on the podium, I want to earn it by skiing against the best skiers, not by default.

 

Of course, I do think we should go to the bars on Friday night before we ski Saturday. I will cover your bar tab, and you can drink till you fall down. That will give the rest of us a better chance and you can get second place for the 73rd time in your career.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Brett don't bother, it will only make him stronger. I tried it at the 2011 Nationals and he tied for 1st and I got last.

[bishop8950]

I see both sides of coin. I am ok with the current "system" as long as the gentlmans rule of "once you win you go to MM or Open (assuming you have the rating)" is honored.

[skidawg]

So u should win one before moving up?

[bishop8950]

@Skidawg No. But if you win get out

[MrJones]

I'm in agreement with Brett. I think the dilution of the field takes away from all. "Back in the day" M3 was huge. In regard to skiing's hey day, when Chuck went off as the 160'th skier in M3 should probably qualify. I understand the idea behind MM, but if it is not a mandatory deal then chunk it.

 

It seems odd that we have mix of skill and age classifications in skiing (for adults). I am not a tennis guy, but aren't all the divisions based on a performance rating rather than age?

[skidawg]

should probably lose the division, everyone skis their perspective age group for regional/nat's

[Than_Bogan]

I firmly believe the division should never be the skiers choice. Anything "reasonable" that adheres to that is fine with me, but the current system doesn't.

 

On the original topic, the only reason I don't like the split is that it's not uncommon for me to be near the top of the bottom half, and thus skiing at the time that I'd rather be watching the very best of my division.

[bishop8950]

If anyone wants to make a rule change proposal do so. If you want to host your own events with your own format like @OB, awesome. I will ski MM as long as I stay qualified and its available. If MM goes away I will ski my age group. For now on the road to BroHo to ski in the rain!

[oneski]

IF I were MM rated I'd gladly ski in that division. Even if that meant first off the dock and not a snowballs chance in hell of winning. MM rating is a difficult feat and an amazing accomplishment that spans several age groups. I'd wear that recognition like a gold medal around my neck.......Just my two cents.

[brettmainer]

My personal suggestion would be to leave MM intact for all events except nationals. That way, the top 55k skiers could ski against each other in local tournaments and at Regionals (which makes local tournaments more fun), but the national champion in M3, M4 and M5 each year is the true age group champion.

 

I would venture that the Big Dawg champion is the real MM National Champion anyways, so it is not like the top end MM skiers wouldn't have the opportunity to compete against each other on a national and international level so long as Correct Craft sponsors the series. To any top end skier that still doesn't want to compete in the age group nationals, there is always Open. Open has always been where anybody of any age (who is qualified) can truly ski against the best, not just the best over an arbitrary age limit.

[JackQ]

Back 15 years ago when I was one of the throngs of Men's III skiers, I thought the fairest solution would be to take the top 5 (could be 3) skier from each lake. Then have a run off or finals of the those top skier. They would then have the same lake, driver, and most likely conditions. Since this would only effect a couple of divisions it would not add much time and may add some excitement, not unlike many other sports!

 

If you cant make the top 5 of your lake/draw than you should not complain. Now that I am moving to Mens 6 after the Nationals this year, I don't think I will have this issue.