All of a sudden having trouble with deep waters.

[Tbub]

I am an older skier (64, Ouch!) and have been skiing over forty years. I have always kept one foot out on my deep waters and now I find myself getting pulled forward and giving my hamstring fits. I am getting very concerned. It is time to keep both feet in but I find it impossible. Old dog new tricks situation. Any thoughts or tips would really be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Tom

[GOODESkier]

What are you skiing on for a ski? What type of boat are you skiing behind? 64 is young! I am realizing it isn't how young you are, it is how solid your technique and stack are that makes the difference!

[dbutcher]

@Tbub, I'm a good bit older than you and switched to double boots several years ago. I had trouble getting up for a while because it hurt my back. One foot get ups never hurt my back or my hamstring. After while with the doubles, I learned that leaning forward so far that my chest rested on my front knee and letting the boat do all the work (not trying to stand up for a long time) eliminated the back issue and also gave some stability. I didn't notice any hamstring pull ever, but I'm not sure this method will work for you. I'd say it's worth a try, but let go at the instant you feel a hamstring tug. Hamstrings take too long to heal. Don

[skier2788]

@Tbub‌ I am following this thread closely. I am having the same trouble with my 60 year old father. Keeps pulling his hamstring. I am a firm believer if you can learn to get up with both feet in you will solve the hamstring problem. He is just too stubborn.

[Brady]

@dbutcher makes a great point, and I am glad he said it...I was worried I was wacko for doing the same thing @Tbub. I am a big dude, and I am a double boot guy. When I start, instead of having my ski stay upright, I literally tip it way forward as you have less drag. Many times my tip actually goes under the water at my starts. I tuck up in a ball and roll forward and then sing a tune for the 2.5 seconds my boat takes to get me up. Many times, I almost disappear under the water, but I haven't missed a start this year yet. and btw, 64 ain't that old, age is not a number, but rather the mileage driven! :)

[andjules]

Two simple points about two-feet in:

- don't try to ignore your back foot; once the boat starts to go, apply a little pressure on it

- don't try too hard to keep your ski straight up-and-down when you're sitting in the water; as long as your mass is directly behind the ski, it's ok if it tilts in the direction of your front foot (ie. if you're RFF, the ski can tilt a little right)... it will straighten up once the boat goes.

The first few times it will require a fair bit of effort but with time you can 'not fight it' and it will become more effortless.

[bogboy]

@tbub, a get up is an exercise in relaxation. Relax every muscle except your fingers. Ask for a medium or medium-firm get up. Almost close your eyes, and breath out, let your self be pulled a little foreword, and allow your knees to be pulled up to your chest. Apply more front foot pressure than rear foot.

[A_B]

I take a slightly different approach with double boots and a load to get up. I push the ski farther out in front while keeping the ski as parallel to the water as I can. Arms straight and ski leaning to right RFF. It sort of feels like I ride the tail out at times, but I don't bury the tip and go OTF much anymore. In the old days, I felt I could come out backwards and still make it and didn't give starts any attention. Not so much now.

 

Make sure your driver isn't dropping the hammer on you. Gradual throttle increase (not slow) vs all at once is best for me.

[Tbub]

Thanks to all. What a great forum. I ski on a 67" D3 Nomad behind a 2004 Nautique 196. I have run 5@32 at 34 MPH a couple of times. Using the "one foot in" technique has always worked but lately I am getting pulled way over the front of the ski when I get out of the water. That is where the hamstring problem has been starting. Should I try to perfect a "two in" deepwater or fix my problem using the "one in" start. Obviously I use a rear toe piece and don't see my moving to a double boot.

 

Thanks again.

Tom

[Jordan]

One tip that has helped a lot of people is to make sure that you get a lot of the ski out of the water...your toes should almost be at the surface. And, tuck your back foot up into your butt.

[vernonreeve]

Ham string pulls are caused when you have your leg extended straight, and your body is pulled over the front forcing you to touch your toes. If you keep that front leg bent, you won't pull the hamstring.

 

I start with both feet in and have tore my hamstring twice. Both times I got pulled over the front because I straightened my legs too soon, and thought if I just hung on, I would get up. But nope, the hamstring popped.

 

If you stand on the floor, put one foot in front, and bend over to touch your toes with your legs straight and again with your legs bent, you'll feel the difference.

[Tbub]

So many great tips. Thanks to all. I think I will keep using the one foot in method and keep that left leg bent!

[Chef23]

@Tbub if you make sure to keep your ski leg bent until you start to come out of the water I think the hamstring problem will go away. I used to have a tendency to extend my front leg and I would feel it in the hammy sometimes. I don't know how big you are but size could impact things.

[Tbub]

Thanks. I made a typo in an earlier post. I ski at 32mph not 34mph.

[Brady]

@Tbub You start with one foot out, and I usually end with one foot out....after all my damn OTF's

Maybe we should switch! You keep both feet in at the start and I will keep both feet in at the end! And @AB, I feel you brudda!!!! Sip it, Grip it, and rip it!!

[eleeski]

One footed starts are much easier on your body. If you stay low you can use your off leg shin as a second ski. It helps a lot. Plus you have a good reason not to stand up too soon (the primary source of problems getting up).

 

@Jordan‌ I usually coach the opposite. Have 6" of tip max out of the water and the ski as flat as you can get it (by bending your knees). As the boat pulls, shift your weight forward to maintain that 6" of tip out. Use the whole ski!

 

Sit ups or exercises to strengthen your core will really help you avoid getting pulled over. Also stretching or yoga will help protect that hamstring. As we age, we lose strength and flexibility. It may take some work off the water to make up for the years.

 

Arms straight, legs bent all the way and count to five before you stand up. I have to do that every time.

 

A Goode vest really helps starts.

 

Eric

[JAS]

I have done one foot starts for years and found the following to be the easiest.

-Float to position with a fair amount of tip is out of water (9"). Ski will be at least 45 degrees to surface

-Bend front knee and with straight arms and position rope handle near surface of ski (close to toe of front boot. To do this will require a fair amount of knee bend. You will also find that front leg will be securely cradled between arms.

-A little reverse back bend, engage core, hit-it, a resisting push with front leg, and let boat pull you up. Using shin of back leg as @eleeski mentioned is also helpful.

 

I have found that the biggest difference between one and two foot starts is ski position. If you start with tip too low, or at too little of an angle, the tendency is to get pulled forward. If you curve spine forward the handle ends up forward and so do you. One foot starts are more of a surfing up move with trick to stay centered. With two feet the tips mentioned are designed to keep excessive weight off back foot.

Just thoughts!

[Jordan]

@eleeski I find that when people are struggling with the two foot start, they often get the tip buried and get pulled over the front. Or, there is too much resistance, struggle with their balance and they tip over sideways,

 

When they get a lot of the ski out of the water, they no longer bury the tip, that helps. when the boat pulls them forward the ski sort of rocks forward and lands more on top of the water instead of plowing through it.

 

In the end, they get to the same spot with either technique, I have just found that solves a common beginner problem the way I teach it.

 

 

[A_B]

Rolling to your front foot instep side is death. If RFF, you should have the ski leaning to the right, and load the right arm a little more initially.

[gsm_peter]

Hi

I am 56 and have skied recreanational since a kid and seriously last 3 years.

Can not make a one foot start.

Has to have both feets in even witha RTP.

Am a LFF.

I put the ski tip one feet over the water.

Set the ski to 11 clock.

Try to get my but close to the heels.

Set handle close to left foot ankles.

Shout ok.

Breath out to stabilize the core muscles.

Close eyes (lences)

Look down to spare nose from water flow.

Raise slowly.

 

Also after each pass i twist the back maximum backwards to save my discs.

That is my best advice to save once back.

 

Best luck. Peter

 

 

 

 

[501Brandon]

I struggled for years at deep water starts... STRUGGLED to the point at tournaments my thoughts were nothing about the course, just getting out of the water. There were times when I made 4-6 attempts at starting. It was explained to me by a very seasoned skier that a huge portion in the success of a skier is the driver when it comes to deep water starts... His quote was "if the boat outruns the skier out of the hole, the skier will likely fail, since it takes an insanely strong individual to hold on to the handle if driver gives the boat a full or aggressive throttle movement"... My thoughts and my style when driving is a soft and progressive movement in the throttle. I am well over 200 lbs on a 68" and don't require hardly any power to get out of the water. In fact the lighter the better for me. I can maintain position behind the ski while in a power and balanced position and follow the ski. Just a thought...

[Commuterfisher]

I have been struggling with this since I returned to skiing last summer along with related back issues. I am LFF, both feet in, and RTP, 54 years old. Recently I have been doing better due to getting more weight on the front foot and the ski tucked up and more flat to the water. A recent suggestion to switch to the power grip really helped also. I say "in gear to take up slack" then " hit it" to go. Progressive power helps.

 

Before I was OTF or getting the handle ripped out of my hands. Sucks!

[Niles Taylor]

@501Brandon‌ We learned this as well. Just because you have a bigger guy behind the boat doesn't mean you have to nail the throttle. Steady and progressive and up they come. If you're the one getting pulled just resist that urge to get up so quickly. If you are getting pulled over the top, try and get the driver to ease into the throttle more. Keep the weight back and knees bent and let the boat get you up.

[GAJ0004]

A friend of mine who is in his 60's blew out both his hamstrings a few years back. He always started out with one foot in, one out. I showed him how to start with both feet in the bindings which he found to be easier afterwards. I recommend starting with both feet in the bindings. One you are in position tell your driver to put the boat in gear first, wait until the boat is moving, then tell them to hit it.. Stay in the tucked position until you feel the ski start to push you up out of the water before you try to stand up. It should make the star easier. I learned to get out of the water on one ski with both feet in, and I did that with a rear toe plate. I switched to the double boot in 1993.

[Jordan]

Watch the first 13 seconds of this video of Terry Winter starting over and over...he leans back far enough to get his knees, and toes to the surface of the water...he is as efficient as it gets.

[BraceMaker]

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHng0LBIVwE

[McGruder]

Lots of good suggestions in the thread. One of the things I must remind myself of at the start of every year is to really allow the boat to do the work and avoid pushing on the ski in any amount. I found that when I allow the pull of the boat to cause the water to push the ski and my knee to my chest and just hang on, it makes the task easier. My problem is when I tend to start pushing my foot/feet leg against the ski to resist the pull of the boat. The more I push the harder it is to hold on to the the handle and the harder it is for me to get up. Much better for me to let the water push against me and just ride the ski to the top of the water. I think our natural tendency is to push on our ski resisting the pull of the boat when we need to only relax and ride it up.

[Jordan]

@Bracemaker.....yes, that one! Looks like I forgot the link...thanks :-)

 

[Porkfight]

The beginning of this season was embarrassing for me as I kept falling to the instep of my front foot (RFF) during deep water starts. Changing my grip didn't help much. Setting the tip of my ski to the 1 o'clock position and keeping pressure on the right edge essentially fixed my problem. Thank you, deep water start thread! My friend's kids now have fewer reasons to laugh at me.

[Siouxcitysmitty]

I noted the term "power grip" above, and, also noticed Terry holding both hands over the top of the handle. This approach/term is new to me. Is this the recommended grip? Make much of a difference compared to an over/under grip?

[BraceMaker]

I have always found that projecting the hips to the surface works pretty nicely. That being when the boat starts pulling I am not a huge fan of letting my hands go towards my feet, it takes very little water tension on the ski to permit driving the hips up and from there you're out of the water.

 

@Siouxcitysmitty‌ when I have folks taking pulls on slalom and not getting up I always have them go both palms down. Not for "power/grip" but for symmetry - seems like folks don't roll over in the water so bad.

[E_T]

Never done a 1 foot start seems silly to me