What makes a good coach?

[Wish]

So I was trying to think of a way to do this as a poll but there's just to many variables. We may like a certain style and maybe not others. There are other variables. But thought it may be a better as a discussion. I guess we could sit here and name names...so and so is the best coach because... but that could get personal and pithy. For me it's someone that points out what I am doing correct first, especially on an initial evaluation by the coach. One, so I can keep and develop that skill and not let it get lost in the shuffle of what needs changing. And two, I'd like to think I'm doing something right. That's just one aspect I like. So, what characteristics do you think make a good or great ski coach (not who)?

[klindy]

Great question. For me I suppose it comes down to two (maybe three) things.

 

First, I'd want a coach that can help optimize the technical setup. By that I mean binding/fin/ski setup, ZO letter, etc. You could also add to this things like starting the pull out earlier/later, turning in harder/softer, etc. I don't want something I can adjust for easily artificially holding me back.

 

Second, and probably second in priority, is someone who can offer suggestions/coaching about HOW I ski. By that I mean what I do in the turn or pull, or any kind of style tweaks that can help.

 

Lastly, would be "personality". Defined as the ability to communicate effectively with me to achieve the coaching advice. To me this is the "hips up", "shoulders back", "connected to the handle" advice. All may very well mean the same thing but some coaches know how to articulate advice so I can actually do something with it.

[ToddL]

The #1 attribute is a coach who takes pride in his or her student's successes. This coach is fed by the smiles and PBs of those he or she has helped. This coach is invested in the student's progress.

 

All the rest of the stuff above matters, too, but is kind of a given. Investment in the student separates the best coaches from those who are just paid for advice.

[crashman]

I need a coach that can give me a limited number of actionable adjustments to make. I once had a coach that said "you need to use the entire ski". (How?). "By getting more of the ski in the water." Obviously that didn't lead to any meaningful progression. I understand the overall goal of skiing but I need to know steps A,B, and c before I cand worry about F. And I need to know which is A and which is F.

 

More recently I had a much better experience with a coach who really limited the number of adjustments to about one or two at a time "you're really hammering your turn at 1 ball and you're getting out of position and riding the tail. That's partly because your gate is too narrow. This pass try getting wider and turn for the gate a little sooner but less intense." After 3 or so passes. "Great.. That's much better at the gate. Now as you approach the ball shift your hips forward by simply staning taller ( and straightening your back leg...just kidding) as you approach 1 and 2 ball" I'm sure he had a thousand things to tell me but he started with the biggest.

 

I can see now the benefit of working with the same coach over a long period of time.

[rockdog]

I think it's the ability of the coach to recognise which of their students requires "technical talk" and which doesn't and whether those students can make sense of what's being said. I've seen a couple of coaches whom have tried to get to analytical to students who cannot understand the instructions when all they require is a basic approach. Maybe they feel they need to do that since they are being paid to come up with something?

 

Good basic instructions ie. good stack, gates etc. are very valuable to students who are learning the course for example just as proper ski setup technical analysis to skiers running 32/35 and beyond.

 

Some coaches seem to not see the difference.

[ctsmith]

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[Andrewski12]

@ToddL‌ Very well said.

[6balls]

A couple of times I've had pro coaching along with a few other skiers of differing styles and ability levels. The coaching points were the same trying to give all of us the same tip despite varying and different deficiencies.

 

I like to see a coach pick up on a skiers style/habits and try to work with the skiers unique strengths (sometimes over-used to a fault) and weaknesses.

 

The challenge on the coaching side is this may be a 1-2 set deal and that's tough for the coach in my book. Multiple days of coaching or a week of skiing with coaching for 2 sets on 3 different days of the week with a day in between to put the suggestions in place may be ideal but difficult for the avg Joe to pull off.

 

BTW, @wish is a good coach. Very perceptive guy. Last fall I skied in FL pretty rusty after not skiing for 4 weeks and fairly fatigued by the time he arrived...but had a few sets with him in the boat and also heard what he said to my ski buddies when they skied...very perceptive and gives tips in a way that is very understandable and practical. Wish and I have similar tourney and practice PB's, but I was really impressed with his ability to pick things out and suggest how to correct them across ability levels. I would get better skiing with him in the observer's seat with regularity.

 

[ntx]

I have had the opportunity to drive the boat for several of the more popular coaches. All of them well known. The interesting thing was to listen to what they told the skier. One well known coach stressed the same thing to every one of the eight skiers I drove. And he said it in almost the same way to each. Another coach never said the same thing to any two skiers. It sure gave me a different perspective of them. Some get hung up on one aspect and see nothing else. I also agree with @toddl that the coach should have a connection to the skier. They should share in the skiers accomplishments.

[ski6jones]

A good coach first and foremost needs to communicate with the student. A good coach for one person may not be a good coach for someone else, unless the coach can adjust his delivery for different students. This is the sign of a top notch coach.

 

After that the coach needs to have something useful to communicate, something that impacts your skiing in a positive way. There are lots of well intentioned good skiers that are terrible coaches. The coaches ability to put his knowledge into words you can understand and implement is key.

 

A good coach needs a good student. The lasting positive impact of the coaching for me comes after days to weeks of implementation. As a student you need to have a model of what you're trying to accomplish with your skiing. As you get new pieces from a coach that work for you, those pieces get put in place until you can do them without being reminded.

 

Finally, you get what you pay for (for the most part). Find a professional you click with and visit them as often as your budget allows.

[6balls]

It is also true that just because a person is a really great skier that they are not really a good coach. Many of you know I'm a doc, and I often have the opportunity to teach med students.

 

Often times the students rotate among me and my partners and the learning experience for them varies greatly despite them working with a cadre of good docs. Some teach well, some don't despite similar levels of expertise.

 

One thing is for sure...to teach well you have to have a passion for teaching the topic(s) in question. Having a med student along makes me far less efficient due to the time it takes to teach rather than go to the next patient, but I really enjoy it. Full time would bury me...but a week to a month at a time works ok. A receptive student makes it even more rewarding.

[colo_skier]

I was being coached by somebody we all know and respect. He was asking me to accomplish a certain quality to my skiing. After the set and after teaching several others he came and talked to me at lunch and I explained that I was not quite sure that I understood what I was trying to accomplish. He apologized and was upset at himself. The reason was that he considered coaching to be communicating no matter what the topic was. He then explained the concept in a completely different manner and I suddenly got it. Not that I was able to do it really well but I now knew the intent of what I was trying to do. A lot of people have asked what new stuff I learned when I was there. They wanted to know what I had been told I was doing right or doing wrong. To be honest I didn't really come away feeling I had been told do this or don't do that. I was given more subtle hints on what I should try to do to improve my skiing. For me that worked. As has been said before a genuine interest in the skier getting more successful is a given. Bottom line is the coach has to be invested in the results of the students.

[Oldutskier]

Many great comments. I feel that the best coaches can tell you to fix or focus on one thing that will correct multiple issues. This true for all sports.

 

Otherwise is is impossible to focus on fixing several issues at one time. It is simply too much to think about at one time.

[ToddL]

I think there are 4 key attributes for coaches:

1) Knowledge/Expertise

2) Communication Ability

3) Personal Skill

4) Investment

 

These attributes interact and can't be considered completely independent of each other.

I'd say that a coach with excellent skill and knowledge is pretty useless without the ability to communicate. Likewise, a coach with extreme student investment and great communication skills but with zero skill or knowledge can be harmful to the student!

 

I see knowledge and skill as separate attributes. I also value knowledge over skill. Someone who can do something but doesn't understand how or why they can do it, is pretty useless to me as a coach.

 

I guess if I had to rank the 4 attributes in terms of criticality, I'd put them in the order above. A coach must be knowledgeable and able to communicate that knowledge. So, I see those two as most valuable. Ideally, that knowledge would come from personal skill. And if the coach is also invested, then that is the best.

 

So, these four are the Hierarchy of Coaching Attributes. Knowledge is the fundamental foundation. Stacked on that is Communication Ability as the necessary means to share the knowledge. Not as key but beneficial is a coach with added Personal Skill. Finally, the coach who adds Investment is the highest order of coaching. You can't have the higher order of the hierarchy without the lower element as it will simply fall short. These building blocks must be stacked in this hierarchical order to achieve each advanced level of coaching.

[Ilivetoski]

For me it comes right down to knowing what you are talking about. I have had people coach me and I can tell that they are just rambling and saying things and not thinking and absolutly none of it makes sense. I dont even need you to be a better skier than me! I also think that a good coach dosent give you something new to work on EVERY PASS. I cant stand when I end a set and I just heard 7-9 things to work on in that set. Last but not least they have to listen to skier input. If they are insisting what they think they saw is correct and thats the only option, nothing else is possible, that tells me that they have a narrow view of how to ski and I dont wanna hear it.

[jipster43]

Communication is key. In snow ski instruction it is not enough to tell someone to counter or keep a quiet upper body. You have to provide them with a drill that allows them to feel what you want them to feel. Typically you have the student try the new technique in their boots, then you move to the skis. You exaggerate it one way and then another and then bring it all back to the middle.

 

I've been in a waterski clinic in which the coach exclaimed, "JP, what can I tell you to get you into a powerful position at the turn-in for the gate (I'm LFF)?!" I was a little taken aback. I thought I was paying him a lot of money because he knew exactly what to tell me to get me into a good stack turning into the gates!

[ski6jones]

The first time I ski with a coach I try to do everything they tell me. After the first lesson you can evaluate some of the things @llivetoski and @jipster43 mention. Even if you find you don't like the coaches approach you should still try to grab any morsel of truth you can from the coaching you received. Doesn't mean you need to ski with them again.

 

This starts to get into the topic of "How to choose a good coach", which isn't the same as "What makes a good coach".

 

As a skier you need to be critical of the advise you heed. If it doesn't work and doesn't fit into the model you have for your skiing, then move on. There are plenty of top notch coaches available.

[jipster43]

For the record I would/will clinic with all the coaches I've used in the past. They've all helped me immensely and let's face it, if you can get me into a stacked position, you're the greatest coach on the planet!