PRP update

[gator1]

Well, it didn't work. I have chronic jumper's knee, and chondromalacia (someday I should learn to spell that). Tried blood injections, PRP injections, kept getting worse to the point of throwing in the towel and becoming a "normal" (watch TV, drink and go shopping with the wife).

 

Got pretty far down the path toward stem cells and Regenex, which is discussed elswhere on BOS. But an additional symptom stopped me: when the jumpers knee was relatively calm I could snow ski as long as my knee stayed bent more than 40 degrees. But the first bend past 40 was agony. Skiing a whole run in a full squat position great on the thighs, but not too great on jumpers knee. Going down stairs was a one legged affair, as was walking down a hill.

 

So, my surgeon buddy scoped it Monday. Dug a big chunk of scar tissue out from behind my pattelar tendon, and found a flap of cartilage that was folding back and getting pinched every time knee bent more than 30 degrees. He gave me video, cartilage looked like a piece of string cheese split halfway. So he trimmed that off. And the flap was fragmenting and shedding chunks throughout the rest of the joint. So those all got vacuumed out.

 

Chondromalacia looked better than he expected.

 

I think the PRP was fixing the Chondro------, but it couldn't stick the string cheese back together, and obviously couldn't dissolve scar tissue.

 

Two days in, I feel like somebody took a rock out of my shoe after a loooong hike. Hope this keeps up, I might get to be abnormal again.

[gregy]

Sounds like the doc definitely found problems. I'm getting my left knee scoped tomorrow hope it turns out as well as yours.

[rfa]

Best wishes to both of you gentlemen!

 

[Stevie Boy]

When my Microfracture gives up, I have been gathering information on the Conformis Knee options, basically bespoke knee bits, I am not sure if they would be up to Jumping but worth looking at.

[gator1]

@stevieboy, Best I can tell about conformis is that it is a better knee implant, in that it has a better chance of working correctly due to being custom sized to your knee. Bespoke in limey terms. But it still has all the drawbacks of a metal knee. Did you find something different?

 

@rfa, thanks.

[Stevie Boy]

I am still looking for info, I did read that they leave the ligaments alone, not only does conformis do TKR, they have other options to resurface parts of the knee (thats their termonology) basically one two or three comparments, I look at para olympians in awe, when I see what they can achieve.

But Water Ski Jumping is always gonna hurt at some point, I know Jason Seels quite well, great Guy, was European Jump Champion and Record Holder, would of almost certainly been on the rostrom at Moomba this year, he is desperate to Jump again, but there is a question mark on his knee.

Can still slalom deep 39 off @ 36mph and even, run it ocassionally and is amazing on a trick ski, but his true passion is for the Jump.

[ral]

Problem I see with a knee replacement is to have some biotech company launching cartilage replacement 1 year after getting your knee done.

 

My brother is an orthopedic surgeon specializing in knees, he does knee replacements and he said knee replacement is something a hard core skier should try to avoid...

[gator1]

@ral, Ya, that would be the ultimate in frustration. when I was in college in 1980 I started to go bald, and my knee started to hurt. I figured they'd have a cure for both of those by now. And, on top of that, no flying car yet.

 

everything I read and hear says metal knee only when you can't walk anymore, and no more fun after you get one.

[SkiJay]

@gator1‌ Is there any chance now that you've had the cartilage flaps, strings, and scars cleaned up, that stem cell therapy can be used to fill in the blanks and buy some more time?

[gator1]

@skijay I hope so. Talked with regenex guys before scope. They had specific recommendation on scope procedure and antibiotics to enable stem treatment. Doc followed their recs during scope. Also drilled bunch of holes in my kneecap to get marrow bleeding into joint. Hurt like a bitch since inter joint painkiller off the approved list for stem. Aging gracefully not for pansies.

[Stevie Boy]

My Daughter is pretty high up science wise, she is very sceptic about the stem cell therapy thing and does not think it can be sustained without repetive treatment, based on the number of cells that will die to the number of cells that will survive, it will be interesting over time if regenex can produce enough data to substantiate their claims, it is possible to produce cartilage from stem cells in the lab, the problem they have had is how do you attach the cartilage to the affected area.

I would love somebody to come up with something, but now that most of my cartilage has been removed and I am relying on bone marrow and blood scar tissue to get me through, I would think that the Regenex route would not be available to me and I am destined to take the Metal route.

I would like somebody to come up with a method to replace the back of my patella with nylon or some other substitute and leave the bones alone.

[gator1]

 

 

@Stevie Boy‌ Talk to Regenex. They seemed pretty above board to me, want your MRI and other scans you've had. $200 they'll give you a phone conf with a doc, decide if they can help you or not. My surgeon is flying to CO with me if I go that route, he had researched them and decided they were best path if my scope didn't work, or if my scope can be augmented with Stem. He's a very conservative guy, has done considerable research of medical journals, and is convinced stem is helping a big enough percentage of patients that it is worth the effort, cost and risk.

 

Regenex told us to leave all tissue that was not "in the way", even if it would have normally been scoped out. Said much easier to grow with something to start with. So maybe your little bit of cartilage is enough. It was going to be $5k or so for the US allowed concentration of stem in CO, and about $15k for unlimited stem in Cayman islands.

 

I have no axe to grind on pushing stem, just passing on what I "learned" so far.