Missed gates at Moomba

[Chef23]

Lots of missed gates by the ladies at Moomba. Is it the current that makes it that tough. I don't think anyone missed their opener but there were some early passes missed.

[MattP]

The nature of the sport. The Yarra is a beast and can take down the best of them. Also let's us see some other names with the shot of a podium.

[Chef23]

I don't think any of the big names missed the semis but it was close for a few that missed entries at 12m.

[crashman]

The conditions there always look challenging but I love watching and I thinks it's great entertainment. I like watching the "average joe" conditions and wonder what the sport would be like if more tournaments were held on public waters.

[Chad_Scott]

Gates are on long stretchy bungy attached to a cable several feet below. Not enough weight to keep them still. They move 12-18 inches at times. Sometimes it the luck of the draw as you go through them. You hope they are still wide as the boat passes thru. Some are not that lucky and catch them as the are bouncing back towards the boat and come towards the boat by 12-18 inches making them narrower than usual

[GOODESkier]

Sounds like the Columbia River...........

[Deanoski]

what river it's down so low right now! do you water up river Steve? I hope the low water table does not effect the risc pond! we will put the coarse in end of april 1st of may.

 

[ozski]

Mapple just had his gates pulled at -38.... Probably won't go through.

[6balls]

Well that sucks.

[Wish]

and the pass looked relatively easy for him. Woulda been cool to see how far down the 39 he would have gotten. Does suck.

[Wish]

Mapple moves on to next round...

[ozski]

No gates for Nick Adams on -39 ...

[Horton]

The sport is entry gates, 6 balls and exit gates. A miss is a miss.

[ctsmith]

Give one gate mulligan per tournament. There will 200K spectators. For goodness sake, give them a show. With so many skiers missing them, obviously there is a problem.

[ozski]

Now Tgas get a turn.

[BRY]

This streaming is something else. Travers was just coming under the bridge on his opener and a Victoria Secret ad came on. Missed seeing his pass but still got a show.

[ozski]

Travers no gates so he's out. Must be something funky going on.

[Kelvin]

@BRY Well, at least your ads were Victoria Secret, I've had insurance ad here. They are using a free ad supported webcasting site. Too bad they aren't using one of the low cost ad-free alternatives out there.

[E_T]

@ozski the funk is the river gods

[Chris Rossi]

It seems like the water is fairly rolly when the skiers are pulling out and gliding for the gates. I would guess that a lot of skiers are not getting a comfortable pull out, are bouncing a bit more than they are used to in the glide, and thus their positioning and timing for the gates is thrown off. Add that to what @Chad_Scott said about the actual gate buoys moving/bouncing and you get a very unpredictable set up at Moomba. On top of that you have the boat making a turn into the pregates on the second pass which does not give optimal set up for the skier. Makes for a crazy tournament and adds to the lure of the event.

[skibug]

@Horton,

"The sport is entry gates, 6 balls and exit gates. A miss is a miss."

 

I don't even know why I am commenting on this as I am not a tournament skier so the gates ruling (or proposed change has no bearing on me)......but.....if the gates are moving targets; that doesn't seem right. What if the turn balls moved 12" out as you tried to round them? The basketball hoop doesn't move as you shoot at it (unless you are playing pop-a-shot). It should be a level playing field as far as the fixed parameters of the sport go. Constant speed, consistent line lengths, course dimensions are fixed (including the gates), boat path deviation defined. I guess if you go through the middle it doesn't matter, right? Still, something seems no quite right.

[ForrestGump]

@skibug The gates are the gates. You go INSIDE the right one until they change the rule. The skier is in control of how aggressive they are in getting close to the right one. It doesn't sound very smart for a skier knowing the gates are moving in the current to go really aggressive to the right side of the space he's allowed.

[Wish]

The basketball hoop doesn't move because it is inside an mounted on a pole. Now think of an outdoor BB tournaments, and they have those, with wind as a factor. When is wind ever consistent. Every 3 point shot will have an element of change to it depending on the gust. But the players on the court all have the same level playing field in a chance of getting that bad gust...or not. It's perfectly right. It is what it is. None of these skiers are showing up with rose colored glasses and cry baby attitudes. They know what can happen. Let them ski. Let the crowds/web casters feel the drama and keep it the same. If we all skied in conditions like @Horton on a daily basis, there would be no need to count gates either. Why bother..no ones gonna miss so why count them.

[skibug]

@ShaneH‌, yes I agree...like I said....I guess if you go through the middle it doesn't matter..ala Jeff Rodgers. But there is still an inherent flaw in this particular instance. Out of bounds, in this case, is a moving target. I am not sure what other sport has a moving boundary. Just saying. I am not a real skier anyway, I only ski "practice"...gates or no gates...I get to ski my next pass ;-)

[skibug]

Also...if the gates are moving that much; is the rest of the course? Turn balls? Boat guides? I haven't heard anyone say anything about that.

[Wish]

I watched the course maintenance crew replace a boat guide. The cable he pulled up on to attach the new boat guide had very little tension on it and the buoy seemed to sit very high. Looked to me like very little was needed to displace it.

[Chris Rossi]

I have missed my fair share of gates in my career so I can relate to how disappointing it is to miss. It is also a major component of our sport and adds to the excitement and so called "drama". While the skiers with the best potential may not make it through every round of every event, the best skiers of those individual rounds do go through. Who knows if Andy or others who missed their gates and ran the pass would have if they had waited later to turn in? May have hit some rough water and been worse at buoy one. Never know. That's why we have to go through those gates and why we feel so bad when a fellow competitor misses them.

[A_B]

If the buoys are moving out with the boat wakes, as noted by Chad, then they would likley move back inward past straight up on their return. The rollers in the setup are are very apparent as well.

Seems to me that they need a better method of fastening the gate balls on the Yarra, although, it is the same for all.

[auskier]

There are several reasons why gates are an issue at moomba. In previous years, most gates have been missed from the city end - with the short run in. However, this year the majority were missed from the bridge end. It was obvious that a lot of skiers took their gates from the bridge end with caution and was common for them to appear narrow and drift in before they went for it. If you are hesitant, the rollers, current and unusual run in will chew you up.

All the balls are on single string lines around 4 foot long down to the crosswire. Adding bungee and thickness to the buoy line has been found to increase debris catching on the lines, and drag more in the current. With very little elasticity, the buoys tend to move sideways, more than up and down. The guys who manage the course have been doing it for decades. They know what works, and what doesnt better than anyone! They have seen it all. Getting an RC slalom and jump course on the Yarra is darn HARD.

There are several skiers who pushed the limits on gates EVERY pass. All it takes is the smallest roller, the boat being a few inches off the centre and the buoy will move from where you expect it to be. If you want to ski at moomba and flirt with the right hand gate ball, be prepared to have them pulled.

[Wish]

Wonder what water filled buoys would do. I noticed after I did mine on my float course, they were less affected by water movement..waves, wind and such. These seem to roll over them rather then displace them up, down and to the side. The requirement for line tension is less then half of what is needed to hold air filled half under and the safety factor is increased as the displacement down word by a ski is significantly less then air.

[ForrestGump]

The fact of the matter is......the current, the rollers, the trash, etc are what makes Moomba what it is. Those are the things that give this event character. You enter it knowing that. You don't enter it with the intent of setting a record. You enter it with the intent of just making it through from one pass to another. And it's why for a slalom skier to win, they've got to nut up and overcome the adversity that the Yarra presents you with.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

Personally, I love the mix. Sure, do some pro tournaments on carefully constructed ponds literally designed for records. But also do some pro tournaments in really challenging setups and see who can hack it on that particular day.

 

Both are interesting and entertaining.

[Horton]

@auskier‌ at least in the finals I thought most missed gates were from the left of camera angles.

 

Is that the city end?

[Kelvin]

Think of Moomba and the Masters as the US Open and the Masters in Golf. Those are tough courses which are intentionally made as tough as they can and the best of the best have to rise to the occasion to win. I like it.

[ozski]

@Horton, your correct. The skiers I was talking with today said most of the trouble was the city end. I'm told the buoys just go a bit mobile in the current, get dragged along stick and then spring back into place so its easy to miss.

[MAD11]

Agree they should stay, but it is amazing to stand there and watch how much they move even when there is no boat going through. From a distance it appeared to be swaying as much as 12" total. If the boat driver is off to the right it makes the buoy spring back in even worse. Just one of those things at Moomba you have to be ready for I guess. It's also interesting when the boat is not centered and they hit a boat guide. It actually makes the turn buoy bob in or out.

 

Great tournament and experience. The group there really works hard to put on a show and keep the event moving. It was really cool to be sitting in big crowds watching skiing. The people get into it, which we need much more of.

[Stevie Boy]

I'm with Horton, the sport is entry gates, 6 balls and exit gates. A miss is a miss.

If we change the rules, it would take away the ability to apply pressure to other competitors, an aspect of the sport, I find interesting, not just the skiing but the mental game as well, that's the difference between the good and the very best, it also gives the under dog the opportunity to take down the big dawg.

[auskier]

 

the awesome crash aside, this shows you how the city end run in can be tricky

[ral]

Swimmers in an Olympic swimming pool get perfect conditions. Long jump athletes might get wind against them, so not perfect. Snow skiers might get really strong winds, low visibility, ruts in the snow, etc... depending on their starting position, so really different conditions. Water skiers might get current, wind, rollers, etc... This is just how the sport is. And, at Moomba, that is how it is played. Same at the Masters. And that is part of what makes Moomba and the Masters special.

 

As @Horton and @shaneH state, you go thru the gates, around 6 buoys and thru the gates again, and you make the pass. No Mulligans, no "I got a roller", no "I got wind". You get a duck, you can reride. You get debris, you can reride. You miss the gates, game over.

[PurdueSkier]

A question for the experienced skiers and math experts:

 

The slalom gates are 2.5m about 8.2 feet apart. So if you were to stay behind the boat and ride through the middle of the course, you would have about 4 feet on each side between the gates. As you pull through the gates at an angle, the effective width narrows. Many comments above mention "playing it safe and going through the middle of the gates" as opposed to hugging the right hand gate ball. For the skiers who can run the harder passes, with the angle they generate behind the boat; at 38, 39 and 41 what is the effective width between the gates? What is the difference between playing it safe and hugging the right gate ball? Is it 2', 12" or even less? I understand it is a tough math question because of the actual arc through the gates, and not a straight line.

[klindy]

@PurdueSkier‌ your math is incorrect. It's 1.25m from the centerline to the center of the ball.

[PurdueSkier]

@klindy Thank you. Yes error on my part. I corrected it above. Question is still the same, just more room to work with.

[Jody_Seal]

All I can say is you have to be their to really under stand the city end at the Moomba. Having been on both ends of the string I can tell all it is the most difficult approach to a slalom course for both the skier and driver their is in the world of our sport. And I skied it at 55K/34mph I can only imagine finding the groove at 58k/36mph. These skiers that have survived the Yarra are truly the greatest of our sport!

[Murrski]

Received a newsletter from Gordon Rathbun regarding gates at Moomba. Letter also includes comments from the CP. Many of you probably received the same newsletter but I thought I'd post it anyways.

 

Gordon's newsletter:

 

Hello Ski Paradise Friends

 

In this newsletter, we'll talk about the Moomba Masters Water Ski Tournament in Melbourne, Australia. I was told by last year's winner, Chris Parrish, that 9 skiers missed their gates at this championship (including Chris in the final round.) That's a lot of controversy, perhaps.

 

We know the Moomba Tournament is the toughest in the world when it comes to current in the river and for skiers trying to make it through the gates. Chris Parrish sent me an email today and here was his exact quote:

 

"9 skiers missed their gates at Moomba, ridiculous!!!"

 

It is undeniable that it's a big dissappointment when someone like Andy Mapple or Chris Parrish or the 4th seed, Jonathan Travers, miss their gates. I have the opinion that the best skier will win whether you judge the gates or not. I should clarify that a bit. In tournaments like the Moomba (and their isn't really anything quite like the Moomba Masters,) anything can happen when you have backwash and current, but on calm water ski sites, the best skier will usually win. The last World's was a good example.

 

At Moomba they need to decide if they want to ask for an exception and not judge the gates. My recommendation is to try it for one year. What have you got to lose? Wouldn't you want happy spectators rather than confused ones when Parrish doesn't get the opportunity to defend his title. Why do we try and judge something that most spectators can't see anyway. They can see the turn buoys but most spectators can't see the gates.

 

Here is what happened in the American Water Ski Association's meetings regarding rule changes after our enlightened push for the idea of not judging the slalom entrance gates in tournaments.

 

There is a new 'Mulligan' rule where if a skier misses their gates on their opening pass, they get to ski back at the next speed or line length and if they make their second pass, then the first one will count also and they can keep skiing. This is better than nothing and it's a small victory, but why not have it for all passes. Parrish and Travers would have gotten to keep skiing. It's a bit of a Band Aid approach to fixing things.

 

Also recommended and accepted by USA Water Ski, ski clubs who want to test and experiment with the idea of not judging the entrance gates, can ask for an X class tournament where let's say as an example, the last of 3 slalom rounds has the gates not judged. The round will basically be for experimental purposes and the score will not count towards your National standing. Hopefully a lot of clubs will ask for the X class for one round of a 3 round tournament, but that is usually pushed by a club member who is in favor of the new idea.

 

It's a bit of a shame that in an X tournament, the round won't count towards National standings, especially since every ski club has the same opportunity to try this idea. However, these two small victories are about as much as one can expect in one year of pushing this 'No Gate Judging' idea. I think we did fairly well.

 

Regarding Moomba, the pros who have gotten their gates taken or missed, need to get together and write the event organizers. This article is not really about Moomba. It's about a rule change that is progressive and needed.

 

In the U.S. last year their were 6 proposals before the Rules Committee regarding not judging the gates. 6 Proposals!!!!!! This was interesting in that I'll bet there has never been so many different proposals about a topic before. We can take a bit of pride in this idea generating so much interest. However, the 6 proposals watered down the main one that I submitted. With all these ideas it's no wonder the rules committee didn't come up with one solid proposal.

 

My recommendation for next year is this:

 

Use the wording from the rules committee on the skiers needing to start from the left side of the boat wake, but do not judge the entrance gates, only the exit gates with the new below mentioned 'Safety' buoy.

 

Allow a single yellow boat guide 'Safety' buoy on the right side of the boat path as the boat closes in on the entrance gates. This buoy could be used strickly as a 41 meter buoy exit gate when the boat is coming back.

 

Here is an explanation: All boat guide buoys are 41 meters apart except the current exit gate which is only 27 meters. The current 27 meter space means that skiers when rounding 6 ball, do not have room to do a safe S turn or Zig Zag turn that they have at 1,2,3,4 and 5 buoys now in order to make it safely back to the wake. If you do not understand this, you are not alone. Go to the rule book and look up the diagram of the slalom course.

 

My good friend, the late Brett Yager, died while rounding 6 ball at 38 off (11.25m) and trying to make it back to the wake in time for the 27 meters of space where a score of 6 buoys is scored. If Brett would have had 41 meters he could have used the safer S turn approach.

 

I have Andy Mapple on video taking a huge 'hit' from the boat as he makes it back to the wake after 6 ball in last year's Dream Week Tournament. Andy had a full rope of slack (at 10.75m) and somehow he held on. He hurt is back a bit and said to me later, "If I would have let go of that rope, the handle would have gone through the boat." It's possible to kill someone with a flying handle. (my comment, not Andy's.)

 

A minute later I have Andy on video rounding 3 ball and doing an S turn at 3 ball at 10.25meters and safely making it back to the wake in the 41 meter space we now have. What better example than that!

 

What surprises me is that in our safety conscious country this would not be an automatic acknowledgement and rule change. I would think that everyone on the rules committee would be in favor of that.

 

I think a lot of people are not aware that after 6 ball in the slalom course, the space to get back to the wake and score a full buoy, is less than anywhere else on the course.

 

This safer exit "Safety" buoy should have been in all 6 proposals!!!

 

Let's get back to not judging the gates. If we decide to not judge the gates, the competition is still the same for all skiers. The best skiers will still win. That is the bottom line!!

 

Shouldn't we acknowlege that? I would like to propose that we allow X rounds at tournaments for the month of June in 2015 and these scores will count towards our National Standings. The idea is that once people realize that this is better and that the best skiers will still win, they will not be threatened by a new rule. (Threatened might be a bit strong, but I can't think of a better word at the moment.)

 

With a new rule, tournaments will be easier to set up, and less expensive to set up with the video equipment required. Also they would be easier to judge. Easier to judge is huge!! My comment is why do we try and judge something that is so impossible to get correct when we don't even need it in the first place???!!!

 

With regards to World Records, Nate Smith and Regina Jaquess would have an asterisk beside their names in the record books forever. They'll probably go on to score new world records anyway. What is threatening about that?

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this. That's all at the moment regarding not judging the entrance gates. Below are comments on upcoming ski trips that I put in most of my emails.

 

I've been sitting here for hours typing this. Pardon for any typos. I'm too tired to go back and read this again. However, I'm not to tired to go skiing. I'm outta here.

 

Thank you, Gordon Rathbun

 

[Wish]

"Wouldn't you want happy spectators rather than confused ones when Parrish doesn't get the opportunity to defend his title."

 

Did I miss something? He did get to defend his title. He lost. And I think its fare to say he lost to one of THE most CONSISTENT scoring and ranked skiers on the planet. If your gonna cut that right hand ball that close at a tournament with moving balls...well...thems the breaks. And you take a risk at the end of the course going for it. One I do not take.

[6balls]

Hanging onto hits others can't is part of my "game". :)

[klindy]

@6balls Generally speaking you're right. However rule 10.12 C puts a twist on the idea -

 

C. 1 point when the skier has crossed the line of the gate buoys before passing the level of the next buoy with a tight line under the power of the boat.

 

1. The intent of the tight line is to ensure the safety of the skier and boat crew. This means that if the skier can only cross the line of the buoys with a slack line, even if he successfully manages the sudden tightening of the rope, he will not get the full point.

 

Which means, that there are some conditions where even if the skier can manage to hang on after the hit, they'll get 1/2 a buoy instead of 1 full buoy.

[rockdog]

I didn't hear CP say it was "ridiculous" last year when he won and many others missed their gates.

 

I live in Melbourne and certainly know what the river is like although I've never skied on it, I can tell you nothing has changed on it since day dot bar cleaning it up significantly. What has changed? Shorter ropes and guys pushing the boundaries further for starters.

 

I spoke with CP and Andy last Thursday night and asked Andy about how tough the conditions are on the water compared to other events and he said it wasn't as bad as people make out. Granted the current is SOMETIMES difficult he said, but the US Masters is just as tough due to the rollers. Understanding here is a guy who has won the event 14 times, clearly he knows how to navigate the conditions as does Chris but just this time out, they both failed. Next year they both may finish 1 & 2, who knows.

[Wish]

"At Moomba they need to decide if they want to ask for an exception and not judge the gates. My recommendation is to try it for one year. What have you got to lose?"

 

All credibility as to one of the premiere events on the earth that requires the best of the best to bring their best.. Ya.... good idea to water that down..geeeez

[Murrski]

Yes, my first "dislike" - thanks @Jody_Seal for shooting the messenger! Now, if I can just up my game to a panda! JK Jody... I understand most folks stance on this topic.