Nate and Two Hands

[Garn]

I'm looking at this picture of Nate. It looks like he is basically out to the buoy line yet he still has both hands on the handle. He's beginning his reach but still, at the moment, both hands are on that handle. It almost looks like he's turning in to go around the buoy! That probably helps explain why he has such tight line tension throughout his runs. Makes me realize that I really need to hold on to the handle much longer before I reach. You know, I'm good at observing things like this. But I'm terrible at applying them to my skiing.

 

Garn

 

 

[ForrestGump]

It's deceiving unless you see it from a higher angle. I watched him a good bit from an elevated tower and he's still a ways inside the buoy line when he releases his outside hand, especially as the line gets shorter. Not saying you shouldn't hold on longer. Just be careful in what you perceive based on one picture.

[GregDavis]

Wow, Great Picture, it does look like he is turning in, still both hands on handle. Interesting!!!

If I can force myself to stay on handle longer, connection with boat and tight line makes it so much better. (Hard to do, however.) I get anxious and through the handle out there, BAD

[6balls]

I argue he is on the inside edge but still outbound. After he releases he will still be on the inside edge outbound.

[colo_skier]

There was an interview with Nate sometime ago were he said something to the effect that he had to really work hard on letting go of the handle on some of his passes. He said it was because he would hold onto the handle for as long as he could with both hands and sometimes 2 long. I think it points to what people are saying about staying connected to the boat for as long as you can. Easier said than done though. Just adding a clarification he was talking about his easier passes, only human ones not super human.

[6balls]

The lines are so short that he cannot be coming back in at short-line with two hands on the handle. He keeps it as long as it's advantageous to keep it but not so long that it draws him up-course rather than outbound. At the point that he would get drawn up-course he transitions to one hand and continues outbound to his apex because he needs all of that width at extreme short-line. The master of the game.

 

I can't even imagine having as much inward lean but as much outbound direction as Nate has in that pic...which is one of the innumerable reasons he is THE MAN and I'm just a hackin' away.

 

 

[Horton]

I have heard if you watch careful at 41he is drawing an arc inside the ball line until the moment when he lets go. When his hand finally gets off the handle he moves out that last foot or two to get around the ball.

 

@matthewbrown‌ did I get this idea from you?

[Wish]

and his outbound..... STARTS at the gate shot. And that's why he can generate so much space to ride the handle outbound as far as he does even at the shortest lines. Pause it at 48 seconds. There's the key. Also I would argue that he does not have that "tight" line once he lets go. He is 100% free of the boat. 0 load until the ski is completely around the corner and almost back to the white water. His speed, width and outbound is generated from the very start of the pass and it stays with him as he is just maintaining it.

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[GregDavis]

sick!

[A_B]

If you watch Nate closely from some of the overhead videos, he actually arrives to the buoy line so far up course, he appears to be running parallel with it going straight at the buoy at times. The extra hand IMO helps him make the edge change and stay on that edge while "waiting" for his turn in point. Not many in the world can emulate this approach, at least I don't know of any one that isn't getting paid to ski, that can.

[9400]

@AB can you link to any Nate overhead videos please? Thanks

 

[ral]

IMHO looking at Nate in particular, and looking at skiers running 41 off in general, does not necessarily yield good techniques to be applied at 28 to 38 off...

[A_B]

@9400, I don't have it bookmarked, so will have to look. It was used in conjunction with discussion of skiing early and NOT going outside the buoy line. I tried it last year and about went OTF. He obviously carries a lot more speed to do this.

[matthewbrown]

@horton yes...actually, holding on to the handle too long at the really short line lengths can block your body from naturally arcing out....I learned that little jem whilst skiing with Whisper

[A_B]

This is a good video on path. Still haven't found the Nate picture from above.

 

[AdamCord]

@horton that makes perfect sense. If he's staying connected with 2 hands and running a short line (38 or shorter) then the path he's on MUST be inside the buoy since the rope won't reach the buoy. What he's trying to do is release that energy high up on the boat. If he comes off the handle early he'll release that energy too soon and stop the swing up on the boat meaning he ends up not as wide and he doesn't run 41 like the rest of us run 28. @matthewbrown is right, there's definitely a limit to it and it's all about timing with your speed vs. where you are in relation to the boat. I can see how someone as good as @matthewbrown has pushed that limit too far. Most people don't even come close for a variety of reasons. Of course there's more to it than just "hang onto the handle!"...

[AdamCord]

@ral I think it all depends on what you're trying to emulate. Sure taking a snapshot of Nate or someone else at 41 off might show some interesting positions that you probably don't want to try at 28. But back up and look at the fundamentals of what allows those guys to run those passes and it's the same at 15 off as it is at 41. Generating speed with minimum load, staying connected until your release, taking your energy high on the boat, carrying as much speed as you can back to the line, etc. are fundamentals that work everywhere. Focus on those instead of trying to figure out what "posting" is (for example) and why they do it. It's just not important compared to the big picture ideas.

[ral]

@adamcord, totally agree. This is why I put "does not necessarily yield good techniques to be applied at 28 to 38 off... ". But I really think the fundamentals are better shown by the pros at 32 to 38 than at 39 and especially than at 41.

[The_MS]

@‌Horton "it's all about timing with your speed vs. where you are in relation to the boat"

[bishop8950]

We have overhead drone video of Nate running 41 and is does look like he will ski inside of the ball before he lets go with the second hand. Like Matt, I have heard versions of this from TW as well. And no I don't have a copy of that footage to post