Perfect Pass Timing Tolerance

[DkLkSkr]

When setting up my Perfect Pass Z-Box system over the past summer I have been having trouble dialing in the tolerances. After changing the background settings I will get +/- .01 to +/- .02 for one pass. Just as a think I have it dialed in I will run the next pass and I will get some segments that have +/- .03 or +/- .05. Is there something wrong with my setup or would this be due to driver error and not enough throttle or something? How many passes does one usually make with times in the +/- .01 to +/- .02 before not looking at the background settings anymore? What is a tolerable +/- ball segment time that people are happy with? The ending course times are always within tolerance, but ball segments remain inconsistent. I want to get to a point where I can just ski and not worry about having to change background settings anymore.

[colo_skier]

Not sure how to answer your question. However I started a thread from a couple of years ago were the issues I was having with PP (zbox included) and consistency were addressed. Not everyone agreed with what I saw but as stated that was my experience. It might help not sure.

[ozski]

What software version are you running?

[GregHind]

Likely issues are

 

1. Servo motor not operating smoothly

2. Poor voltage supply from boats wiring harness for the master module

3. The older software is not as consistent as 8.04r or later

 

To fix

1. Watch the video on pp website about servo motor tests. Install a return spring if needed. Test servo motor operation at 25% 50% 75% 100% throttle with engine switched OFF. Should be perfectly smooth. Nothing should bind

2. Check the voltage reported by pp system (instructions on web site or manual) and tell us. It should be at least 13 volts when the engine is running at 1500rpm. Check my old posts for solution. Relay wiring harness direct from battery like you used to have to do with car driving lights

3. Update your software

 

Having all 3 of those spot on will give you the best most consistent pull possible. Work then through they are not hard and post here for help as you go

 

Do you have a carby engine and when do the secondaries kick in?

 

Greg

[colo_skier]

2005 Malibu Response LXi. (Carb?)

[DkLkSkr]

@ozski I am running the software version that Z Box first came out with.

 

@GregHind Thanks for your thoughts. I checked the Servo Motor last summer and it operated smoothly. Is the return spring something that goes on the servo motor? (sorry not mechanically inclined but can tell my mechanic) We are putting in a new battery this spring. I believe from memory that we had 13 volts on the Perfect Pass display. If I am running the first version of Z Box it sounds like I need to update to the new version? Does this address some of the kinks? I have an EFI engine. What do you mean by secondaries kicking in?

[GregHind]

Gregg, since you have a 2005 LXI, your engine is efi and doesn't have secondaries. Also your wiring will be fine. The early Z box software wasn't great but the new versions are much improved. Update for sure.

Also, you can go here and watch the video for the linkage test http://perfectpass.com/?q=videos (it is currently the third video down).

 

Its a good idea to do the linkage test and fix it if you find a problem. Most likely for you though it is the software version.

Greg

 

[DkLkSkr]

Thanks Greg. I will update this spring and check the linkage. I hope that resolves the inconsistencies.

[DkLkSkr]

@GregHind, after updating the perfect pass software and checking all the other issues I am still having issues with consistency. I have spent countless tries adjusting the background settings to get the pull just right. There will be moments where I have the settings correct and then we will turn around and go back through the course only to have inconsistent segments again. I have had only a couple instances where the ball segment times were +/- .01 to +/- .02 all the way through the course. I have never had this happen back to back times. Usually it will go from being +/- .01 & +/- .02 ball segments one time and then the next time I will get some +/- .05 & +/- .06's.... When I adjust the settings of what I think the issue is then it sometimes helps but other times doesn't. Does anyone have experience in Northern WI with setting up PP Zbox that could lend a hand? Needless to say I would just love to ski knowing PP was going to work correctly and not have to think about it all the time.....

[skiboyny]

Have been struggling with the same problems on 2 boats all summer! We have made some improvements but still it's a moving target! I've adjusted background settings endlessly but it's very hard to intelligently adjust something that is different every time. End times are always spot on. Spent my summer adjusting speed control instead of skiing!

[DanE]

Maybe I already sound like a broken record, but remember that in background settings BALL1 adjusts time to buoy#2, BALL3 adjusts time to buoy#4 and B4 to XIT balances time fron buoy 5 to exit gates. Make sure you check EVERY time segment, and +-02 is not good enough when you are calibrating. Start with calibrating perfect baselines, remember to use correct crew adjust.

This is also worth mentioning, if you want to tweak time to buoy#1 within the same skier weight option, changing crew adjust is the only possible way since there are no background setting changing entrance speed. If the boat feels softer than a modern ZO boat, increase ZBOX value and/or increase the 123 option to make the system react more/earlier so you won't pull the boat down so much.

[GregHind]

@dklkskr how did it go with the linkage tests? What voltage does pp report with the engine running at 2000rpm (in neutral). Show photos of your throttle setup on the engine and servo. Show a video of a servo rotation test with engine off and hand throttle at 3/4 or full

 

Pp is really good. Something is wrong with your specific setup in your boat. If I was there it probably wouldn't take long to find out

[DanE]

And by the way, changing battery will not affect voltage at all, the only source for electricity when engine running is the alternator.

[DanE]

Oh, forgot- begin the background tweaking getting times to buoy #2 (BALL1 setting)right.

You really want time to buoy 2 dead on, if it's slow, even by 02 you're screwed.

[kstateskier]

How are your times using JUST the stargazer features? If they aren't correct there - you're going to have a hard time getting them correct with the zbox plugged in. Take a step back and check your baseline times in PPSG. If they are good then troubleshoot the zbox. @Ed_Obermeier‌ has a good writeup on this.

[DanE]

Imho, if you have Zbox installed with the latest software don't bother with Stargazer mode.

Just gives a strange pull that doesn't resemble anything, was never approved as a tournament software either.

Latest version of Zbox works.

[DkLkSkr]

@GregHind‌ all the linkage tests went as the video described. I had our mechanic watch the videos and check the linkage. All the other check points you mentioned checked out fine as well. I don't remember specifically what the voltage was but I do remember it being sufficient. I will have to take pictures and video to post this weekend for you to review.

 

@DanE‌ Thank you for your input. I have read this before and tried to adjust accordingly. What I think I better understand now is that I should recheck my baselines and adjust crew weight (which I have been doing) along with only working with one background setting at a time. I figured that a +/- of .02 was good enough, I will now adjust until I get it dead on, then move to the next setting until that is dead on from start to this point. Once you dial in the Ball 1 setting should you never touch it again while adjusting the others and so on when you get Ball 3 set? Say the boat is fast and shows a segment time of -.02, how much should you adjust the background setting, down 3, down 5, down 10? Also, when adjusting crew weight for speed going to Ball 1 like you described which adjustment up/down does what to the boat speed heading to Ball 1?

[DanE]

@DkLkSkr‌ You got it. Get times to buoy 2 right first then work from there. Don't sweat it if time to buoy 1 is 01 or so on the fast side, want a faster buoy 1? raise crew adjust, opposite to slow buoy 1 down.

With that said, it usually is beneficial to have buoy1 veer on the fast side.

How much to change background values? Go big at first so you are sure what the change did, because the skier cannot ski every pass exactly the same, like increments of 20 or more. For example my background settings are 40 18 40, quite a big change from factory setting.

One last thing though, get the latest software, only 30$ or so, will spare you from a lot of frustration.

 

[DkLkSkr]

@DanE‌ I do have the latest software version 8.05. I am hopeful that this new approach to adjusting the system will fix it once and for all. I will report back with what I discover so others can see what worked/didn't work. Thanks again for all the input!

[lff]

Trying running the rpm monitor inverted. Worked like a charm on my 03 RLxi.