Please welcome OB4 Systems to BallOfSpray

[mmosley899]

@KM no, they do not match in size or height off the ski surface. @SkiJay the release lever does make it very easy to get the boot plate on and off the ski. No more balancing on the ski while you put your boots on.

[Texas6]

The system looks awesome!! Curious, is there a tension adjustment on that release? Those side releases looked a bit easy in that video. Really a cool entry to the market, and a safety improvement IMHO

[mmosley899]

@Texas6 the release tension is adjustable, there is a video showing how. The tension was set very low for the video so that I would not turn the table over.

[Patmaster]

Ordered mine today. I guess it will be the first OB system in Europe. Years ago, Terence showed me a prototype of "safer" Fogmans based on a similar principle. Never saw this in production. Kept tweaking my (once broken) front ankle in Fogmans 2-3 times each season. Kept having a sore and inflamed Achilles tendon on my back foot most of the time. Yeah they look heavy, yeah they have sharp edges. But have a look at the videos on the website - how would you not want to try them out? Too much of a temptation for a semi-retired, half broken, double hard shell enthusiast. I'll be happy to post my first experience in a few days time!

[kfennell]

Those videos change quite a bit, why you would release the product before you had those videos ready boggles my mind...

 

Anyways, what does this weigh compared to a FM quattro single plate setup?

[Wish]

@kfennell‌ weight does not matter in binding plates or boots for that matter. I was told that directly by Andy after he picked mine up and transferred them to his ski. Thought for sure I was gonna get some flack for the weight. But nope.. just the opposite. HO's Exo's are very heavy.

[Patmaster]

I do not expect the OB4 system to be perfect. More importantly, it could be the beginning of something that was long overdue in waterskiing - a much safer, snow-ski like binding system that could become a standard in the industry. Materials and shapes (weight included) will certainly improve over the years. I'm full of hope! Mine arrives on Friday...

I know that both boots should release simultaneously, but this is very difficult to actually design. It will come, in the future. This could be the beginning of the end of all existing double hardshell systems currently available!

[eleeski]

@Wish‌ You will not ski badly just because you have a heavy setup nor will you ski well just because you have a lightweight setup. But weight certainly does matter. There are probably diminishing returns to weight reduction but the weight needs to be considered. Still, people do ski well on heavy Wileys.

Where this system falls on the weight relevance scale is yet to be determined. I expect the weight to decline as the product matures - these guys are clever.

No binding will prevent all injuries. We now have another option - good!

Eric

[Steven_Haines]

those things look bad ass!

[Wish]

@eleeski agree. But in the case of these plates, my plates and a few other's I've come across on the heavy side, none tip the scales to a fault. That was confirmed by Andy and gave me and other's I suspect an ounce or two (or 16) of vindication.

[Zman]

@mmosley899 Let's go with the dry land simulation. :)

[Patmaster]

Got mine today. Might try them out Sunday. Sleek, simple, make-sense system. Little boot plates are rubber plated and allow for ample rotation of the boots. The large plate is thin and does not weigh much. It does look very promising. Forget the weight - it is not more than a double Wiley. It will not play a role. Can't wait to ski them!

 

[Deanoski]

Mike do you have a ring on the plunger or do you still just need to have some play in the handle to get the proper forward pressure.( the amount the pin is depressed into the binding housing) with out forward pressure you will not stay in the system. since every ski has a different rocker line each ski will have different forward pressure with this type of system.

[MattP]

I got to do a short test on the system on a trick ski this weekend. It felt really good. I even got to experience a release and I was even more impressed with the system because of the type of fall my reflex would not have release and I would have hit the water pretty hard with the ski still attached. Which usually would ring my bell a little bit. My reflex release broke crossing the wakes this weekend in a tournament and I'm now in the position to go to a new system. I can say that I will for sure give the OB4 system a try on my slalom.

[Patmaster]

Tried the system yesterday. Everything was new - the ski I tried it on, the bindings and the boots. Wanted to try the boots that come with the system. Impressed with relative simplicity and functionality of the system. It is not difficult to set the release tension - you do it in a similar way as with the Reflex boot. No doubt in my mind that this is the safest double hardshell release system so far (once proper tension of the release is chosen). Small plates that the boots are attached to allow you to mount (probably) just about any hardshell boot there is, so you should stick to what you are used to. They also allow for ample rotation, if that's what you like. I cannot evaluate skiing characteristics since the boots that came with the system are way too different from what I'm used to. That said, if you are skiing with the same hardshell boots you are used to, it is very unlikely that the other parts of the system will significantly change the skiing characteristics of your ski. Importantly - no pre releasing, no funny stuff, seems much, much more solid than Reflex release and probably (with proper maintenance) likely to last for a long time. As I posted before, weight is no issue, there are heavier systems out there. Bottom line:

- the closest waterski bindings ever were to snow ski bindings;

- a giant step closer to a much safer double-hardshell system!

 

Bravo @mmosley899, and thank you for having the courage to make bold steps in helping our sport become safer! I sincerely hope things will work out well for OB4!

[mmosley899]

Thanks guys! I am glad you like the system. @MattP no problem putting your current boot on the OB4 boot plate, which will then fit on a OB4 mounting plate on your slalom and another one on your trick. Then you should see no change in the performance characteristics on your slalom, since you are used to that boot.

 

@Deanoski you still need some play in the release lever(handle) which will allow the forward pressure needed to adjust for the different rocker and flex of each ski.

[Deanoski]

Mike good luck I'm glad someone is using the system!! nice up dates ect! by far the safest system for every type of fall. I tested differt systems for yrs before settling on the double pin block system. less pressure on the front leg in a otf then a single plate system.

[MattP]

@mmosley899‌ sounds like a solid plan. Lets to it!

[mmosley899]

@MattP bring your skis, your boot, and your wallet to Whitestone and we will get you all set up! Let me know when...

[MattP]

I got my Prophecy set up yesterday and got to take the first test ride with the new system. I also got to spend some time with @mmosley899‌ learning more about the product. First impressions are this system is not heavy and releases when it should. I have now released once on a trick and my slalom. I will be putting together more notes and a review when I get more sets in on the system.

[Deanoski]

matt one thing that will help with this system when using only a kicker is raising the back foot the match the height of the front boot you will stay more balanced standing on two different plains is challenging. and makes most skier wheelie out of the turn. old ARC guy!

[bishop8950]

@MattP and/or @mmosley899 I would love to see a video of on the dock standing release of MattP's set up. The release video with the wrench is great, but I would like to see the forward release in a boot with the "reflex orientation"

[MattP]

@Deanoski‌ I agree. I talked to @Horton and @mmosley899‌ about this when I moved to the setup. I have been riding a Reflex setup that had a heal lift and bondo on it so I will have to measure it with my old binding to see if there was much change in front binding hight off the ski. I know what the current difference is between my font and rear heal from the plates. I will also weigh my old setup and report back.

@Deanoski‌ what would you suggest in using under my rear binding plate for a lift? A sturdy rubber that would still respect the flex of the ski & plate but would not compress to much over time? I only have 1 set on the setup so far but I did not feel unbalanced, possibly evening it out will help my skiing even more. I run my RTP with grip tape on top of the alum so it will need some good amount of lift about 1" I would say.

 

@bishop8950‌ I will see about arraigning that for everyone here. I will prefer doing it on dry land.. I do video most of my sets so you never know when we will get a forward release on video.. though I usually do try to avoid those falls..

 

One thing that attracted me to this system after blowing up a 2nd Reflex release was the fact it will also release in a rotational type fall. Last season I tweaked my front foot pretty bad when my reflex did not release in a ski skip out sideways fall. I could barley walk for a few weeks.

[Deanoski]

Matt, we used to use the Ho rear rtp that was raised up 1/4 to match the front plate. no sure if they still make them? rubber would work or a stiff EVA might also work well and it would be lighter. the reflex boot is 3 mm lower in the heel then the ball of the foot. 6-8 strips of duck tape in the just in the heel makes the reflex boot plain even from heel to the ball of the foot making it easier to move Center of mass forward.

think short

Deano

[Horton]

@Mattp I think we would all like to see a release video at the wakes. I am sure you can do it.

 

[Wish]

@MattP to me that is what makes this the most impressive release to date....rotational release. I want to try one...well two actually.

[mmosley899]

@bishop8950 you cannot release the boot plate standing on the dock with the release tension properly set to your weight, height and skiing level. This is because the pressure required to release from the rear is based on the rotational torque of your body weight at your height against the release spring. Your body weight is moving forward at 34+mph(inertia), on a lever(your legs), when the ski suddenly stops, creating a momentarly huge pressure on the spring. It releases!

 

@horton I am sure evenually we will see @mattp demonstrate it on video, sooner than later...

 

@Deanoski on the OB4 boot plate, the heel sits 1/8" higher than the toe, which is common to most skate boots.

[MattP]

@mmosley899‌ @Horton‌ @bishop8950‌ I'll keep the camera rolling then...

 

@mmosley899‌ what makes the heal sit 1/8" higher?

[mmosley899]

@MattP I designed the plate to work with the cant built into skate boots, so the heel sits up from level compared to the toe in a natural position. Ie, the heel of your shoe is raised from the toe...

[Wish]

@mmosley899‌ another insiteful move. Skate boots are not designed to rest flat. In 14yrs of runnIng skate boots on my skies, I have always raised the heals to simulate how they rest on the roller blade and it ain't flat. All the other skate boot system rest their boots flat. Never understood why.

[bishop8950]

@mmosley899‌ I can step out of my Reflex set up on the dock. I can also step out of my rear rubber animal. This gave me comfort that I will release properly on the water which has been the case. I have also never pre-released. I must be missing something in how your system operates that prevents this sort of test?

[MattP]

@bishop8950‌ @mmosley899‌ I just dry land tested an OTF and it worked just like a dry land test of a Reflex style release.

With the OB4 as you go forward the plunger goes in allowing the wedge on the heal to slide out and up.

http://youtu.be/SoDtN1FrjXk

[mmosley899]

Well, there you go... guess I wasn't standing on the front of my ski, since I use double boots... But Thanks @MattP! That is exactly how it works, high school physics...

[bishop8950]

@MattP, thanks. Perfect. When I do it I do allow my front knee to bend. Press your knee to the tip and step on the ball of your foot - pop. I have no proof, but believe that is a solid test of the forward release requirement. Based on that video, I would give it a try.

[Brewski]

@mmosley899 GREAT STUFF~!........and So the world knows skate boots are 10mm higher in the heal than toe, this is a 200 yr old BS height that I prove wrong daily. When I set the foot to the mounts I use different heights to make up for the given 10mm the blade manufacturers stick to. Anyone using this a skate design should have a riser in the heal to feel more normal but skate boots and proper designed waterski boots are WAY WAY make that WAY WAY WAY different.......New Slalom and Trick Boots Testing continues......

[Wish]

Damn I hate questioning what I think I'm understanding from a post, but I hate not being 100% sure even more. So, @Brewski‌ are you saying the heal on my roller blade style, all hardshell boots mounted to my ski, should NOT have any lift in the heal.?

[BraceMaker]

OOOOOooooo Heel over ball measurement debate. This gets me wet in the gills.

[BraceMaker]

Alright... so here is a reflex boot and a blade holder...

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m298/hawkskier/Mobile%20Uploads/22525ea7-2098-44c2-9b77-1e3808d2d071.jpg

Check out how a blade holder sits.

http://www.petesprostockhockeyshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/4/046_768x1024__1.jpg

[Chef23]

Hockey skates have forward lean built into them to help positioning on the skate. Different manufacturers have a different amount of lean built into them. For example Bauer and CCM have different lean stock in their skates. I don't know anything about what kind of lean might be built into the kind of skates @Brewski makes.

 

I am not sure how this translates to water skiing. I don't believe my Reflex boot has any heel lift built in and I know my Strada or Wiley boots don't. I am not sure I need it in my water ski binding. I have never had any issues getting forward on my slalom or trick skis.

[Brewski]

To make a roller/ice boot feel more natural it SHOULD have heal rise..I use bondo or epoxy putty...Reflex is a ice/roller boot. Push the toe on a flat surface heal is air born, most all boots unless snow ski or waterski specific. ....

[BraceMaker]

@chef23 - the point of my picture is that a reflex boot sits perfectly on a lightspeed pro... And looks stupid sitting on a flat plate. Even sitting on a 404 doesn't have the boot "level" as it is lower than the shell is designed to be.

 

The reflex boot is nothing more than a boot for roller skating, which means it is build around the same mechanical motions as hockey skates - it has forward lean for skating.

 

Then it is taken OFF the blade/wheel holder and put on a lower plate - leaning it backwards from the design.

[BraceMaker]

The FM boot (USD classic throne) and the grey top boot (USD USF Throne) both sit flatter - largely because when assembled as a finished skate they both have sole plates installed to protect the boot during grinds/slides etc. Those raise the heel some, but also "aggressive skating" is not built around fast skating and is much less forward positioned. FM assembles with some built in heel rise ~1/4".

 

I am not advertising - I am just providing data points.

[Commuterfisher]

Ordered mine today. Pulled a calf muscle on an OTF. With RTP and Attack that did not come out. Limping around all weekend and not skiing. If is was my Achillies tendon it would have cost me 10 k plus in lost work. I would have paid the $ 400 just to go out and ski three days!

 

10% discount before May 31st was nice! Thanks @mmosley899‌

[Wish]

FM boots are vert skates and all those sit flat on the outside. Not sure they are flat (without heal lift) on the inside. I have been jacking up the heal on my hard shell roller blade style boots since 2001. I never understood why the other manufactures were sitting theirs flat. It's obvious they were not designed that way. Always had folks at tournaments ask why I raised the heal. Explained my rational (similar to above) and was looked at like I had a third eye. Thanks for the vindications boys. :-)

[SkiJay]

Interesting discussion. As far as I know, all water ski-specific bindings from high wraps through Stradas put the foot flat on the ski. But maybe the skate manufacturers have paid more attention to the biomechanics of athletic movement. Maybe ski boots are flat cause they've always been flat. Maybe flat is better for skiing, and maybe not. It's interesting food for thought.

[Wish]

What is not flat to the ski is your toes if the roller blade style boot is mounted flat. They actually get elevated off the ski. Unlike rubber or Strada style boots where your toes actually lay on the ski so to speak. Also food for thought.

[Brewski]

The idea of the 200 yr old lower front post on skate is simple it makes you have a forward lean. Stand on ice with a forward lean and you will go forward, keep up with it or fall on your face. Simple~!.... @Wish toe raise is a good thing but NOT as much as how the "skate boots" point them. I am using less toe ramp this season than last. So far it is feels really really good but I am on a ski with more rock so it all may be equalling out....

 

[Ed_Johnson]

I have had several pairs of Powershells since 1995, and they have always had spacers. "Washers,' under the heel of the front boot...The rear boot has a spring lift.

 

In fact the last couple of Powershell 5's I bought, I replaced the rear metal washers, with thicker plastic washers to give it a little more lift.