Administrators Horton Posted February 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am super excited to announce that OB4 Systems is a new advertiser on BallOfSpray. Check out http://www.ob4systems.com/ Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 26, 2014 Awesome. Another choice out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @horton will you be doing a test and review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas6 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Good stuff! Can't wait to learn more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Dont worry ballers! Despite the name, @OB is NOT the mastermind behind this system!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wish Posted February 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 26, 2014 Wow. That's the first time and probably the last we will ever see the name @OB and "mastermind" in the same sentence...ok second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wish Posted February 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 26, 2014 @OB Yes.. there is @webbdowg99... and then there is mine. That's two sentences with @OB an mastermind in them. Which just proved my point.. So @OB how many is it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted February 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 26, 2014 OB4 Systems will have a display at the Malibu Atlanta Pro Am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I've seen this system in use first hand. I've also witnessed the development and attention to detail that has gone in to its production. It has been refined iteration after iteration. From what I've seen, it may end up being the safest hard shell system on the market today. Don't overlook OB4 Systems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rfa Posted February 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2014 looks very interesting and intriguing...when will there be some technical information on "how it works"? Looks like Fogman-type spring loaded pins front and back but i can't make out the details of the individual plate interface at the center (from the pics on the website). looking forward to learning more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef23 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It looks very heavy to me from the pictures on the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted February 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2014 I am with @webbdawg99 as well. I have seen this system used first hand by a handful of people over the past few years on slalom, trick and even jump skis. I know the owner personally and to echo what Adam said his attention to detail is second to none. I will be giving the system a try here this year for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwroblew Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 looks like that aluminium plate on the bottom of your binding would do a number on your shin if it hit it during a crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @Chef23 Its not as heavy as it looks. However, it is probably a little heavier than a reflex system. But honestly, does such a small amount of weight really matter that much? I guarantee the weight difference is no more than what my weight fluctuates depending on what I eat for breakfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wish Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 My binding plates are thick and heavy. Get razzed sometimes about it and even told "....to much weight..". That was brought up in front of Andy as he literally was swapping my plates and bindings to his ski. His answer " .... The weight doesn't matter when it hits the water". For me that was vindication and to see this setup furthers that feeling. What I find intriguing is that I may actually get to attach my boots to this system and not be limited by the hard shells sold by the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I know Chet has specifically commented on biding weight as well. He shares the same sentiment as Mapple....it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef23 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @webbdawg99 given that I weigh 215 in ski season it probably doesn't make that much difference. So does ski weight make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 28, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted February 28, 2014 @Wish how many time have I said ski weight does not matter? (within reason) Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipster43 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I suppose weight doesn't matter as much to you meatnecks out there. I don't believe that holds true for the little whipper-snappers out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @jipster43 We are talking about ounces....not pounds. It doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 It looks very promising, a real effort to develop a safely released system designed exclusively for waterskiing not like mixing up stuff from other sports. Having said that my concern is about using too much aluminium mixed up with stainless steel bolts and pieces. You know when you mix aluminium with stainless steel and water the stronger stainless steel corrodes the aluminium and creates problems such as stack bolts and cosmetic issues. Personally the only aluminium things on my ski are the fin and fin clump and I’m planning to make one out of a carbon block. I wish they could use stainless and prepreg carbon (real carbon for those who know what I mean). However if it comes to Europe I will probably be one of the firsts willing to try it and then buy it. Great effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm not familiar with metal interaction when exposed to water. However, I do know the final product will be anodized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ral Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 Ski weight does matter, but not under the bindings, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 Have you seen skis that plates are directly screwed to the ski with out using a countersunk aluminium washer? The bolt corrodes the plate instead of the washer. Fin clumps and plates are also anodized but that does not prevent the corrosion. I think that most of the flat parts of the system can be replaced by lighter stronger prepreg carbon, probably not all the parts and it might increase the price substantially. So far I have only seen a photo and I'm in the dark so before saying anything else I would prefer to see and try first before judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 First off good on them for trying to bring a new product out and thinking slightly outside the box, commendable...but those uberthick aluminum plates will drastically change the flex of the skis, Std aluminum binding plates inhibit the flex of a ski enough, hence the use of composites that can be thinner and retain (as close as possible) the designed flex characteristics. As far as weight goes ask Dave Goode if ounces matter in a ski... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @jayski We weren't debating if the weight of the SKI makes a difference....just the binding system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rfa Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 As a long time Fogman user I am intrigued by the dual plate approach while still using the spring-loaded "plunger" fore and aft. Without disclosing any proprietary information, can someone describe how the release mechanism works - I'm interested in understanding how the plates attach/interface at the center and what/how it improves front foot heel release. Thank you. Separately and just out of curiosity, @RAL why does ski weight matter but not if under the bindings? I assume you mean ski weight vs. overall weight???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ral Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 @rfa, Put a 2 lb weight under your bindings (e.g. with a heavy plate), you will not notice it. Put a 2 lb weight at the tip of the ski and the snappy onside turns will not be there anymore... Extreme example, but it should get to the point. Friday afternoon, so a bit tired to go thru the math, @Than_Bogan might want to expand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @mmosley899 will be the man to answer all the technical questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rfa Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thank you @Ral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JAS Posted February 28, 2014 Members Share Posted February 28, 2014 Plunger/plate concepts were big in snow skiing 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted February 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2014 @webbdawg99 Horton made the ski weight reference earlier and regardless it's foolish to exclude binding weight, along with that even a persons own weight...they are all factors whether one likes to admit it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 1, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2014 @OB Actually it is the M3 record in Alabama. I appreciate all the interest from Ballers and all the discussion. We are working hard to get the initial production model finished asap! Then I can and will provide video information on the system and how it works. I hope you all will take a look at the system when we display it at events this summer, and that you ski it when you get the chance. A few notes in response the discussions: The system is only ounces heavier than most rubber DBL high wraps. The weight at your feet makes no significant difference, @ral explains it well. Ask my daughter about the 0 effect on little wipper snappers, she has skied on an earlier version since she was 8. I am fully aware of galvanic corrosion, and all the aluminum will be anodized. All commonly used binding systems utilize s/s screws and aluminum plates. Proper maintenance will help prevent this problem. Carbon fiber is not suitable for the spring housing or most of the machined parts. Carbon fiber is more expensive. This system is made up of very precisely machined parts. Over the long term aluminum is more durable and I expect the major parts of this system to last 5-10 years with proper maintenance. The boot plate is not really uber thick and does flex under pressure. It would be hard to explain all the possible dynamics here. I will attempt to do so in upcoming videos... Whatever is attached to your feet can do damage to whatever part of your body it impacts during a fall. Bruises heal easier than torn ligaments and tendons. Water skiing is an extreme sport and you can get hurt. I will also explain the release mechanism in detail in an upcoming, video as soon as I have the finished production product. @JAS is correct, this type mechanism has been around for quite some time, and is still used in some snow skiing applications. We will continue to test and improve the system. We want your feedback and ideas on how to make it better. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipster43 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm glad to see a new binding system surface. I certainly didn't intend my comment to be viewed as negative. It was just a hypothesis. As a smaller human I usually find weight affects my performance a lot more than my pals. But to be honest I never really noticed the weight of my Fogman's. I was too worried about sinking while I tried to pry the boots off my feet! I'll be curious to see how the Gatormod works with this new design! JP :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 @mmosley889 Weight does matter. Work diligently to reduce the weight and your product will improve. Composites (including carbon) have intrinsic advantages in weight, stiffness and corrosion. Certainly consider composites, plastics and exotic metals. Raw material, even expensive raw materials, are cheap relative to the final product. Good luck, Eric PS @Horton How many times have I told you weight does matter? And note that the weight of all your favorite skis and bindings have become much lighter over time - as the performances improved as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 2, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2014 @eleeski and how many time have I told you that you are wrong. I mean about everything. Lighter skis are potentially better than heavy skis because the materials and processes needed to make a ski lighter also make skis perform better. Materials matter in terms of ski flex and rebound. The lightest materials are not always the best material for every application. Weight is a factor but (within reason) weight is not a critical factor. If you want to go around about his AGAIN lets start another thread. This thread is about OB4 Systems. PS @eleeski love you man Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 @eleeski I agree, raw materials are cheep relative to the finished product. However production of the parts comes into play here, for instance, titanium is lighter and stronger but far more difficult to manipulate in the machining process. And injection molding of polycarbonates is not cost effective because of the low number of units produced. It all must be balanced out, and as units produced increases, new options become feasible. We will pursue innovation! And welcome enlightening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 @jipster43 me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 @mmosley899, can you expand on or show some pics of how a front boot and RTP will work. I imagine it will be like what is used on the trick skis? I just can't make it out from any of the pics on your website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 @skibug The single boot system is the same for slalom, tricks and jumping. The photos on the website are of prototypes built to confirm engineering specifications. As soon as I have production parts, I will post more photos. I do not want to create more conjecture by showing test parts. The only difference in event use might be the release tension adjustment. I will explain that on the website. @jipster43 I doubt the gatormod will be appropriate for this system. The OB4 system will release in an OTF fall. Each boot will release separately as the forward pressure reaches the momentary force as set by the spring tension screw. I will discuss the adjustment on the website, but it is set based on your weight, height and skier ability as determined by you. It can be set to a specifically measured release pressure. The spring is quite substantial and can produce over 300LBs per square inch. The average force at which ligaments and tendons tear can be found in medical journals and used as a guide... That doesn't mean that you can't tear your Achilles tendon if your boot allows more forward flex than your individual body can tolerate. Warm up and stretch before extreme skiing! I will show how the rear releases in photos on the website when I have the new parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deanoski Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 ARC boots system returns 24 years latter! just new boots same binding system to the tee!! except we used injection plastic parts much lighter. we used ali for proto only. I have skied them all and there's only two I would use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwetskier Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 @Deanoski -if thats true it would negate the possibility of ob4 getting a patent, since they are required to detail the ARC system as a previous device. you should give ob4 the information before they waste a bunch of money on a useless patent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted March 2, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2014 I believe patents have a term limit of 20 years for utility and 14 years for design unless reapplied for or maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 3, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yes, @Deanoski designed the original system that worked flawlessly for me for many years. I was disappointed when he stopped production. Then I made changes and replaced parts so that I could continue using the system that I liked so much. And his original patent IS listed as a previous device on our patent application, as are many others from the snow ski and water ski industries. @skibug is correct, there are term limits on patents. We have re-engineered this system and we think it will provide an alternative to some of the other systems currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2014 Coming to a tournament near you this summer! We are ready for the ski season to get started! Look for us at the starting dock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted March 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2014 Chunky Hmmm, would like to be well away from the ski in a fall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted March 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2014 I would want to be well away from the ski regardless of which binding system I'm using. The fin and Clamp block are the biggest item on any ski to avoid, how many times have you hit that? And there are about 68 inches of sharp edges down each side of every ski. I just avoid out of control falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbdawg99 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I just saw they updated their Facebook page with the final anodized product. Looks pretty clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wish Posted March 19, 2014 Baller Share Posted March 19, 2014 Oh that looks goooood! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas6 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Wow, that's a huge step in the right direction when compared to the previous beta pics we saw. Those look stellar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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