Baller Ilivetoski Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 We are about to get a new boat (new to us) for this upcoming season. After reading a thread, it sounds like if we buy a 2002-2007 Nautique we can put ZO in it for $4400. I feel like this would probably be a cheaper route than buying an 08 or 09 Nautique or a 2010 Carbon pro. Ideally what I am thinking is an 05-06 Nautique. Everything I can find (which is a total of about 5 or 6 boats) they are going for $25-$29k. Seems outrageous to me for a 6-9 year old boat. Will there be more of these boats available during the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 There will likely be less. Those boats go as fast as they become available, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Same price range that a 05-06 LXI goes for. The tougher thing for me would be spending 25-29K with the intention of adding on another $4400. What is the price range of boats that already have ZO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 It's like buying a great car/truck...a year from now, you're not going to care whether you spent 25k or 30k on it. Get the boat, get 'er done with zo, and get skiing! That boat will provide many years of great skiing, and you could have for spring! And having zo in it makes it worth more when you do sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 @Ilivetoski, How about this one: http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=26435 Not sure how far you are from Kentucky. The hours are a little high, but many on here have commented that it should not be an issue. All this talk makes me appreciate my 2009 Malibu Response LX (with ZO). I bought that in August 2010 as the original titled owner. It was in great condition with 150 hours on it and remaining warranty for $32,000. I wasn't sure how good of a deal I got then, but, as @liquid d mentions, I don't care a few years later after many good sets. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yr newer. Few less hours and way less expensive. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=26615 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=26365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bdougherty Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 The boat @MISkier referred on SIA is located in Texas at Buxton Marine. Brandon Cruse with Central Kentucky Inboards is representing the boat. Brandon is really connected nation wide and is a good reference in buying or selling a boat. If you are serious about a boat it would be worth your time to give him a call. He sold a former boat of mine, the transaction was to a buyer in Australia and was flawless. Almost bought that boat a week or two ago but will save my pennies and ski my 97 SN one more year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hang tight and you will find a deal on a 2002-2009 196. There are a few out there with under 500 hrs and can be had for under 25k. If you can find an 02 with the 5.7 Ex, that is the perfect boat to upgrade to ZO with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 ...Everything I can find (which is a total of about 5 or 6 boats) they are going for $25-$29k. Seems outrageous to me for a 6-9 year old boat... @Ilivetoski I don't think you can look at buying a good condition used boat the same as buying a used car. IMO a boat isn't the depreciating asset a car i.e. is. Example - I bought my '05 LXI in December 2008 for $29K with something like 275 hours on it, boat sold new for $37K m/l. Today with 525 hours on it I'm confident I could still get around $25K for it (according to current market anyway) and sell it fairly quickly. Compared to the price of a new boat, $25 - 29K for a well kept, well maintained item that isn't depreciating rapidly doesn't seem like a bad deal to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=25956 Not sure about the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 @MS, that looks like a really nice boat. But, how is the 5.0 liter engine and is that a model that can be converted to ZO? I wondered if the 5.7 was required for the conversion. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 The 5.7 is needed, so that boat is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodb Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 I have a 2012 Carbon Pro with 400 hours, i would make you a great deal on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Kelvin Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Here's another one. Meticulously maintained by an OCD engineer. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=26423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller disland Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 One other option is going a little older and or high hours and putting in a new engine with ZO instead of an upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller andjules Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @Ilivetoski to answer your question, in my experience, the used market heats up a little around march-april-may (earlier in southern states, later in northern states). Then again in September-October, which is obviously more of a buyer's market. Prices are highest mid summer, in general, and winter is pretty quiet. For a couple of years (especially after the financial crisis) I'd surf classifieds, find a well-priced boat, bring it back to Canada, ski it most of the summer, then sell it in late August for a modest profit (our used market wasn't as full as deals as the US). I didn't see nearly as many deals last year. Anyhow, searchtempest.com is a pretty good tool, scraping ads from all the craigslists within __ miles of wherever you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 KLP's boat: http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=41727 A number of Nautiques in age range specified: http://www.onlyinboards.com/Advanced-Search-Options.aspx?MakerName=&YearFrom=&YearTo=&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&Keywords=&State=-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller fu_man Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Guys, could someone give a little bit of insight regarding putting a new engine in a boat? I have a friend with an '04 LXi. He maintains the boat pretty well. It has no speed control and it has a little over 1000 hours on it. He wants to upgrade to ZO so he is thinking about buying a TXi club boat. However, he is not made of money so I suggested he either install Perfect Pass (and just live with the slight differences between PP and ZO) or he just repower the boat with a new engine and ZO. I would have to think that even repowering the boat would be cheaper than buying a new-ish boat since his tug is still in really good condition. So, aside from finding a qualified person to install it can you just order a new engine directly from Indmar? Are there issues with retrofitting the new engine into the older model? Are there avenues for selling the older engine? What is the approximate cost to repower a boat with ZO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 I have an 04 LXi and just installed the stargazer zbox upgrade and the easy installation and low cost makes it pretty hard to ignore. There are greater variables in play IMO however the 04 is a darn good slalom hull so if you went down the ZO path you won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 If I were looking for a boat, I think KLPs Centurion would be an awesome opportunity. Can you imagine how dialed in that boat must be? The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted February 15, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @rodb What I actually think we are going to end up doing is waiting until next year and buying a Centurion. I skied it at a tournament and loved it. I feel like it has a very similar wake to the 200 and the ZO feels smoother. @Ed_Obermeier We bought an 04 Lxi about 5 years ago for $20k with roughly 600 hrs on it. Right now I think that we could get about what we paid for it (we are at 950 hrs). Thanks to everyone for posting these Nautiques, I know that around 1000 hours is not a lot on a Nautique, but we just feel like it would be nice to own a 2009 low hours, or a 2010 or newer Centurion. We are kinda shying away from the idea of sell our 10 year old boat buy another 10 year old boat and upgrade it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 16, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 16, 2014 @Ilivetoski Here are two more: $30,000 and 816 hours. It is a 2008, though: http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=22535 $32,000 and 500 hours and a 2009. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=23299 I think the black 2008 looks cool. The 2009 is sitting on a MasterCraft trailer. Makes me wonder if it does not include a trailer. The description does not mention one. Both posts are quite old, though. Makes me wonder if the boats are hard to move. The 2008 price was just reduced, so that could be helpful. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'm with @oldjeep...pony up for a boat that is zero off equipped or settle for a lower price boat that doesn't have it and be happy with that. To spend $4400 on a zero off conversion or approximately triple that to repower an older boat with a zero off friendly motor/control is burning money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skierjp Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 You said you skied the Centurion but did you drive it pulling a skier? This could change your mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted February 16, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 16, 2014 How about a 160 hour 2006 196 ? Will have more photos tomorrow as Steve-O is currently detailing this boat. price is $28K .This one wont last long on the market. Can also install a ZO conversion for the right price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 Waiting to buy a boat that you want now doesn't make sense. You have to think of these things differently: you're always going to have a boat, so what you're "spending" is the depreciation for the time you own it. Your current boat is depreciating and your "newer" boat will be depreciating too. The difference in the rate of depreciation is all there is....and when you really think about how little that difference is...it's a no brainer! Get the bad boy you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 Fresh listing. Cambridge Iowa location means Dream Lake Estates. '07 ZO SN 196 $24K http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=26716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsmith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 This is my boat. 2004 196. 310 hours currently. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=24423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 Let's wait and see how long and for how much these boats sell for. It looks like most of them are way over priced. Some of them are priced more than what you could buy them new for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 @ctsmith nice looking boat! She's got a lot of sets left in her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @ntx spring is springing...an 07 with 960 hours...with zo already! if you pay 22 or 22500, and 5 years from now you sell for 17k, you've spent less than 100 bucks a month depreciation...who cares? what if you sell for 14k? you spent $133 per month. money is the most easily replenished resource in the world. You can always work more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MAD11 Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @ntx just go all out. If you agree with @liquid d calculations, (all of us with new ones have to or we feel bad) you could own this and in a few years it wouldn't have cost you anymore. I'm ok if it doesn't sell. Kinda attached to it, but Momma will have a fit with me for a few weeks at least if we have two at the house. https://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=41846 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @liquid d & MAD11 I am currently a seller (09) and a buyer (new) in the market. That being said, I feel like the asking price of the 2002/2009 nautiques is out of line. Time will tell on how long they are for sale and what they finally sell for. You can list it for what ever you want. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Kind of like the MSRP that are on the new boats. They can list 85,000 but if they sell for far less than that. What is the point. People are listing ten year old boats for what they should have paid for them new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 17, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 17, 2014 @ntx 55K new boats will keep a positive $$ on good condition 196s. Overall there are not that many out there for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MAD11 Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @ntx With the ability to retrofit the older boats to Zero off the value has actually gone back up. I gave away my 2005 196, which was perfect in 09 because there was nobody who wanted to pay a decent amount for a non ZO, closed bow 196 then. Wish I would have just let it sit a few years then could have gotten about 10K more easily I bet. I'm not sure if the prices are out of line or not, but the initial price @jody_seal listed above seems reasonable to me for a boat with no hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @MS Some of the ones that have been mentioned here have been on the market a long time. A 09 has been listed for 9 months and a 08 has been listed for almost a full year. If something is for sale for that length of time, the first thing I think, is that the price is too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andy Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm having a tough time buying too. I seem to suffer from separation anxiety with my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 IMO the crazy high price of the new boats is what is keeping the market higher on good condition reasonable hours used ones. Supply and demand... Agree with @ntx though, they're only worth what someone is willing to pay. If it's been on the market for a year at the same price it's priced too high. Seller either needs to get real or just figure on keeping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted February 17, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 17, 2014 The Market is what it is! It goes through Highs and lows. In 2008 I bought a year old 196 for $18K had over a 800 hours on it but at that time everyone was dumping their boats at what they could get. Right now The market is much stronger so the prices are higher. Today's market When the new and newer used boats are $50K plus then the older low hour "nice" condition boats are going to bring half the new boats price that is just the way it is. like everyone this time of year looking for that bargain or trying to get the best deal they can will sit and wait but when it is warm enough to get in the water these customers come off their wallets and pay a sellers price, again! that's the way it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 It's amazing how these hold their value. Without trailer, I paid $27,600 for my '06 196 new (dealer demo with 16 hours). Ordered out a color matched Eagle trailer for another $2,500. I so regret not keeping that boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted February 17, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 Applying some basic economics to this, think of supply and demand. If you dont have a large supply of something, the sellers have more power than the buyers, and will charge the most that the buyers are willing to pay. If you are trying to buy a 2010 or newer boat there are a ton of them on SIA. There are far less 08-09 boats. I feel like the low number of them on the market also keeps the price up. But to @liquid d I understand what you are saying and understand it. However, at the end of the day, after you sell a boat (say for $20k) and you buy a new boat for $32k. That's still a $12k you have to pay for the new boat. Weather you have the money or you want to borrow it. You can say deprecation rates and put different spins on it, but at the end of the day your spending $12k on that new boat. Now that said, the ski boat market is like every single other market on earth. Prices are going to go up and down. In 5 years when you can buy a 200 for $28k or maybe even less, the price of the 08-09 196 will be $23k or less. I think also the ZO aspect of it helps to hold the values right now. ZO is still relatively new, being mass produced on boats only starting in 08. A 6 year old boat is not old. I think after these boats start becoming 10 years old you will see a large price drop in these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 If you see the boat you want for sale for nine months, make him an offer a few thousand below it, he might take it with spring approaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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