knees

[bkk]

any info on stem cell therapy or makoplasty instead of knee replacement for lateral meniscus compartment bone on bone problem?

[SkiJay]

I know two people who swear stem cell therapy regrew new cartilage in their knees.

[SkiJay]

There's a reputable clinic in Colorado. The three doctors there also run a clinic in (I believe) Saint Thomas. I think both clinics offer the full service. They grow stem cells from your bone marrow, which is better than harvesting them from your body fat.

[Fatroll]

I am a veterinarian, and I did my first stem cell case last week. We extracted falciform fat (fat from inner portion of the abdominal wall at the naval) and activated the stem cells. They were then injected into the shoulders (the dogs main arthritis problem), knees and hips. It is my brothers 13 1/2 year old lab so it will be nice to closely monitor her progress. As this technology advances in both veterinary and human medicine, I think we will see benefits far greater than we initially though possible.

 

[MrB]

@SkiJay My wife needs a knee replacement but she is too young. Do you have any info on the place in Colorado

[coskier]

I also would be interested in it as I am scheduled to have an ACL and Meniscus surgery on March 3rd…That will keep me off the water all summer...

[MrB]

@coskier My wife just had Meniscus surgery and can hardly get up and down stairs. She did all the PT but still hurting.

[coskier]

How far out of surgery is she?

[MrB]

@coskier 6 months. PT was 6 weeks, 3 days per week.

[gator1]

@MrB I believe the place in Denver is called Regenex.

 

I have chodromalacia (sp?) in my back leg knee. Which means cartilage on back side of knee cap is flaking off, has craters in it, and chunks stuck to the bearing surface. Tried PRP on it two months ago, no joy.

 

My knee surgeon is also my ski buddy, so we're going to try scoping it first to take out the mechanical chunks, then, while he's in there, a stem injection. This knee started to go bad playing soccer in college ('82). Along with my head starting to go bald. I thought they'd have this shit figured out by now.

[SkiJay]

@MrB I don't have the contact info with me. My physiotherapist had the treatment there, so I'll get ahold of him and report back.

[igkya]

The place in Denver is Regenexx (http://www.regenexx.com). I'm also looking into the Stone Clinic which is in SF (http://www.stoneclinic.com).

[lakeaustinskier]

@coskier I had meniscus surgery in both my knees about a year ago (both at the same time - that was fun). It took me about 4 months of constant PT and rehab before everything felt normal. My PT told me that "motion is lotion" and that the more frequently I move and strengthen the area, the stronger the knee. This off season one of my exercises is box jumps so I'm a believer. Admittedly I did not have any other injury (ACL), however, diligent rehab is the way to go.

[mmosley899]

Geez @lakeaustinskier both at the same time!? I have had four knee surgeries, one ACL, three meniscus. I agree, constant PT and rehab are the way to go. I spent nine months of constant PT and rehab after my ACL before I got back on the water. Twenty years out, may need a tune up soon!

[skibug]

Had an ACL (Right-1999) and three meniscus (Right-2002, Left-2006, Left-2012). No stem cell intervention will fix the ACL. Some freaks of nature can get away with no ACL (Hines Ward comes to mind); but, most all need it repaired. No issues with my ACL (KNOCK ON WOOD!) ever since. Rehabbed like my life depended on it; because it did. I do have arthritic symptoms in my left knee so I am interested in what others with like issues are doing.

[TeamWally]

I took out my right knee in the backcountry at Whistler in 2011, my award winning blah blah knee doc recommended amputating and replacing BOTH my knees. Passed on that program and consulted Regenexx with fantastic results. Here's the write up One of my snow ski buddies followed suit, here's his story on NBC news Regenexx may not be for everyone but it beats the dickens out of conventional orthopedic wisdom. I guess if old techniques were the best we would all be on Hooks and CDXs with rubber binders. All I can say for sure is I'm hitting the same modest bouy counts as I was 5 years ago and snow skiing every bit as hard. For a guy who was advised to ski around the lake on 2 skis due to my bad knees I'm feeling pretty happy.

[SkiJay]

@MrB My physiotherapist just got back to me with the skinny on the stem cell doctors he went to.

 

The Centeno-Schultz Clinic (centenoschultz.com) is in Broomfield, Colorado. They are leaders in the field of PRP and stem cell regeneration. The process starts out with a consultation that costs about $200 during which they get an idea of what you need. They may ask for an MRI as part of the process. If all you need is PRP from a blood draw, they do a version of this that is richer in stem cells (~2 million stem cells) than regular PRP at their Colorado clinic.

 

If they determine that you need the full Monty, you'll have to go to their stem cell culture lab in the Cayman Islands, where they will harvest bone marrow then grow over 20 million of your stem cells over three months for use in full-on stem cell therapy. They will also cryogenically store any of your unused stem cells for future use. If none of this sounds cheap, it isn't. I think my physio told me he spent $15,000 all tolled, but still has stem cells stored for future use.

 

On the other hand, he says he went from not being able to climb stairs with bone-on-bone knee problems, to fully regenerated meniscus in both knees that he says are like new. He's a high-level curling competitor, which is essentially like doing deep lunges on ice all day long, and his knees no longer have any issue with this.

 

This is all to the best of my recollection, but the contact info is good and will get you going in the right direction.

 

[gator1]

@skijay: Thanks for the follow up data. "A horse, a horse, unto half my kingdom for a horse". $15k for my knees is a bargain.

[MrB]

@skijay, Awesome news. I plan to look into it for my wife. I'm hoping our health care will cover after the deductible. This will be the year for us to do it. Many thanks.

[SkiJay]

@MrB You're most welcome. Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes.

@gator1 I agree. It's a lot of money, but cheap if it gets you a "new" set of knees!

[skibug]

@SkiJay, that is sort of an incredible claim in terms of the meniscus being fully regenerated. How was this verified, other than attestation of "no more pain"? How long did the regeneration take? Truly, if these type of results can be substantiated as a common outcome from the treatment versus the normal disclaimer of "results may vary"; its worth the $15K.

[SkiJay]

@skibug It's 100% hearsay. I'm passing along what my physiotherapist told me (actually I know a personal trainer who gave me a similar account of her knee stem cell experience too). He is a credible guy, and I don't doubt that he's got the full use of his knees back. I also believe the claim that stem cells become the cells of the damaged body part. I also wonder how effectively big pharma lobbies against anything they can't control or that affects their profits.

 

On the other hand, after spending $15,000 and travelling all over the continent to have this done, I also believe in human nature's ability to rationalize and embellish. I think the truth lies somewhere between between "fully" regenerated and "functionally" regenerated, but either way, I know two people who've done this and they both say they wished they'd done it sooner and will do it again.

[Skoot1123]

Here is another perspective: how much does a skooter cost?, how about ramps for that skooter?, how about a lift for that skooter? YUP, $15,000 sounds like a bargain to get your knees back. Even if only 70-80% of what they were if you were in your 20's. Great question and great information for the back pocket.

 

Would be nice to get some other Dr's and Physical Therapists input on this info. @RLW?

[escmanaze]

As a guy who is missing parts of my meniscus on both sides something like this certainly sounds too good to be true. Here's to hoping it isn't.