Baller_ The_MS Posted February 14, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 14, 2014 Bring back the 196 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 15, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ms and the monza Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Something tells me @MS got hit on the noggin with a flying hockey puck in Southern Canada 3, maybe 4, times too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 @Horton @Shane Correct Craft is afraid the 200 sales would suffer if they brought back the greatest boat ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Of course they are! No business in their right mind would bring out a lower margin product which directly competes with their own higher margin product. That'd be a stupid business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ShaneH, I believe Malibu still sells the Response LX. But, you did say having the lower margin product compete with the higher margin product was the questionable decision. I wonder if Malibu makes some good money on the older Response line and, thus, does not mind selling a few of those next to the TXi. I wonder how that might change after going public. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 Look at how many models of wake boats CC makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @scotchipman I agree also. Back to therapy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @MIskier Malibu built 6 lx's in '13 from what I understand. That is a loss, as the break even point to maintain molds, mold storage, inventory, etc is way more than 6 boats. Again, this proves that the customer base doesn't want to buy a cheap boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bdougherty Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Mastercraft asking price at Indy Boat show is 88k, I understand that is an asking price and inflated to give buyers the perception that they are getting a good deal but 88k is a long way from mid 50's. I just have to laugh when I see these prices, unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 You wonder how many non-baller types out there know about the LX, they don't even show it on their web page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ShaneH, Thanks for that information. Wow, I had no idea the volume was so low. I expected it to be much more substantial than that. I have to admit, it surprises me that the market is not there. And, with the number you gave, I wonder how long Malibu would continue to do it. I agree that the newer boats continue to have more comfort, features and innovative ergonomic/utilitarian design. But, the skiability or drivability difference would not seem to be that great. For full disclosure, I have not skied nor driven the 2014 Prostar. I am sure that beats the 197 by a mile, but does it really set itself apart from the older, classic, proven hulls? The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bdougherty Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ShaneH I don't know exact figures for the Mastercraft but understand that 88k is unrealistic. My point is why do these dealers (not just Mastercraft) inflate the prices to these extremes just silly in my opinion. I think I know the answer just don't see the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2014 Of course bringing back the 196 or LX and charging 200 or TXI prices would moot the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @bdougherty Not all dealers do that. And they aren't just putting arbitrarily high prices. In most cases, they are putting what the boat mfr lists as the MSRP. There are those out there who put realistic prices on the boats, especially at shows. For comparison purposes, though.......... if you go to the Houston Auto Show or Detroit Auto Show, or the Indy Auto Show, the dealers and mfrs don't put a realistic sell price on the cars. They put MSRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Malibu built 6 lx's in '13 from what I understand. That is a loss, as the break even point to maintain molds, mold storage, inventory, etc is way more than 6 boats. How is that a loss? The molds were paid for years ago, they just pull one out occasionally and build a boat to order (pre-paid for too as I understand it), all they have in it is maybe having the mold taking up some storage space somewhere. Old mold with latest engine etc, built to order and pre-paid for at current market pricing. How are they not making money on that? I'm sure they don't advertise it because that's not want they want to focus on, but if someone wants one it's a boat they might not have sold anyway and it keeps the assembly line running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bdougherty Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ShaneH understood. I just think MSRP @ 30k over what you can buy one for is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 Ed, you don't just stuff fiberglass tooling into storage and pull it out a few times a year. Molds need a lot of maintenance. In and of itself, sitting is as bad as overuse. And the larger the mold, the more maintenance needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 @ShaneH, are you telling us that the TXI and/or 200 is going for true sale price of $45K with a trailer? If so, I may have to buy one or two or three from that dealer. I would be very, very, very surprised if any average customer would get any of the Big 3 for less than $55K out the door; promo maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 15, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2014 I never said a 200 was going for 45. A nicely loaded Malibu with a trailer, that bout will sell under $55k(there are dealers that will sell at this)and the list is about $72k. A Nautique that will sell for $64k or so and list is over $80k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 So, the basic PS w/ single axle trailer "should be" around $60K-$65K to the average Joe? Knock $10K off of that for the promo? So at the end of 2014 season (August for the promo guys) you are probably looking at $50K - $55K depending on your negotiation skills and how well you can hide the drooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 16, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @OB I agree there have been improvements since the TSC1, but after owning '06, '07 and '08 196's (a'12 200 being our current rig) I just don't think the wake is lights out better. Repower a TSC1 with ZO, and it becomes just as capable as new boat...at least I can't tell the difference at the handle end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 I weekly ski between our promo 200('10, '11, 12', '13, and now '14) and two buddy's '08 196's. There is no doubt the wake is better on the 200. The 196 is good. The 200 is softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 ...you don't just stuff fiberglass tooling into storage and pull it out a few times a year. Molds need a lot of maintenance. In and of itself, sitting is as bad as overuse. And the larger the mold, the more maintenance needed. A mold is a mold eh? Would it be incorrect to assume the maintenance required is the same regardless of whether or not it's an older or a newer one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @shaneH is the 200 set up more important? I've skied a lot of 196's of various years and they are consistently excellent. The first 200 I skied I thought threw the best wake, hands down I had ever skied. The next two 200's I was excited they were at the tourney and the wakes were good, but not blow me away good...in fact I think I prefer the 196 to those 200's. I could only think it was something in the set-up. Regardless, sure love the mellow ZO pull on the 200's (at least feels like that to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'll submit, the 200 wake is a bit softer, but not $30k softer. Don't get me wrong, I love the 200, but I think the major improvements are the tracking, space and creature comforts, as opposed to just the wake. I love being able to ski behind one daily, but I would be fine if I had to go back to a 196. Heck, I still love the wake behind our old '91 Prostar. Maybe I'm just far less picky than other ballers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 17, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think the 200 wake may be a bit better at 22 off. IMO the 28 off bump is not big but it is an ankle buster. It could be due to all the different props being used on the 200. Not sure why but the 200 with the 6L engine feels softer and 28 bump is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted February 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2014 @OB that boat is an outlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 18, 2014 Paid $27k for my '08 196LE in 2010. The '12 200TE was a tick under $60k out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 18, 2014 "New is stupid" is a subjective point of view. I just prefer to buy new, whether it's boats, cars, motorcycles, or whatever. Does it make the most financial sense? Nope, but I get to break it in, and know exactly how it was treated from day 1. I've purchased a couple used boats in the past, but just haven't been as satisfied for one reason or another. I also did sell my '08 for $30k btw, just like everyone else. $37k for a 200 sounds like a sweet deal, but I have no more interest in a 600 hour used boat than a 50k mile used car, regardless of how much life it has left in it. It's just my humble opinion, nothing more...to each their own. Back to the thread, I hope MC sells all the Prostars they can build. I can't wait to ski one, if the ice ever melts here in WI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 18, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 18, 2014 @ob - there's a saying that goes, "spend your money, or your grandchildren will"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdubs Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 @Ilivetoski I understand your thinking, especially being a broke college kid, but when the time comes to buy a boat and you want a great Nautique promo boat - hit me up... But just so you know... I sold this year's boat in Oct and have my 14 sold as well (even though I haven't taken delivery yet). I think that the boat market is doing great. No - not everyone can afford top of the line ski boat, but if you work hard after graduation - you'll more than likely get what you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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