volsandskis Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Has anyone heard how many 2014 Pro Star's that Master Craft is building? I am wondering how they will depreciate since the price tag is so high? My fear is we are losing potential skiers due to over priced boats. This is definitely not just MC, but Nautique and Malibu as well. I honestly don't know too much about the Centurion Carbon Pro's price, but I do know that it does ski very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted January 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 27, 2014 The new PS will likely have an affect on the previous hull value, but I wouldn't think it will see hard depreciation due to its price tag. 200's certainly didn't take a resale hit. I know we seem to go round over boat pricing, but I still don't see them as inflated as others do. I see the new Camaro Z28 is $75k for goodness sakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted January 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 27, 2014 Every year there is talk about the overpriced boats. Yet every year the manufacturers sell out their entire allotment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller XR6Hurricane Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 @ShaneH is right on. When people stop buying them, the prices will come down. The local wakeboard dealer told me that when they shoot someone a $90,000 - $100,000 price for a 21' single purpose boat, the people can't get their checkbooks out fast enough. Hardly even any haggling anymore. Too much money out there yet, and it's in the hands of people who are different buyers than those who bought boats 20, 30, or 50 years ago. The guy who runs the pro shop has been in the sport for years and he can't figure it out. He and I are both still from the school where a boat was a once or twice in a lifetime investment that was a major decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 If every year they sell out...their projections are problematic and dollars are left on the table by not having inventory to satisfy demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 I heard 150 boats total in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 @volsandskis define so high? It's more than last years but less than CC and just a bit more than MB. You will not be paying MSRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well said @MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted January 28, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 28, 2014 @6balls They sell out their allotment. Not their entire production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted January 29, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 29, 2014 i saw one at the boat show in SF. Boat show special was $78K!. cool boat, but not 78k cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted January 29, 2014 Baller Share Posted January 29, 2014 My brother just priced out a loaded PS with 5.7, and it was way less than $78k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsandskis Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 @MattP if I can go and purchase an extremely nice car, say a BMW, Lexus or Porsche, for the same price as a boat, then I believe that the boat is extremely overpriced. Also, a 20 year note is absolutely unheard of. At the boat show in Nashville, the ProStar was a tad over $68K. For 10% down the payment for 20 years would have a payment of $408 if you didn't have the cash. To me, all that is outrageous when you can only use it for such a relatively short time each year. Heck, ski's are outrageous as well, but we are getting used to not blinking an eye at paying $1400 for a blank. I really think the boating industry and ski developers are pricing themselves out of business. Same can be said for all equipment in the sport if we "ballers" really want half way decent equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdubs Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Boats are overpriced right? Wrong... You can get mad at the boat manufactures if you like, but the real blame is the dollar value declining that drive prices up. Everything including fuel price is up. I am not going to get into politics, but if you had x number of gold coins 10- 15 years ago you would probably come close to spending that same amount of gold coins on getting a Corvette, boat, gallon of gas ect. Houses are the only exception right now, but if you look at the trajectory of printed dollars injected into the economy and the min wage increasing - its a good sign you are going to see prices continue to rise. Guess we better get used to it. Unless things change you are going to see a 100,000 ski boat in the near future. The real trick is to maintain your wage increasing as it correlates with inflation. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bigtex2011 Posted February 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't know. We bought my wife a nice suv, it was 74k. I drive a 10 year old truck. We bought a 2008 zo boat last year in the low 20's. I guess its just is what it is. If you want a new anything be prepared to pay and probably overpay. New is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted February 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2014 The reality is some people want new but the majority of people don't need new. I can afford new but I choose to buy old because old still does the job and does it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2014 Seattle Boat Show the new PS was listed over 90k. Price on a tandem decently optioned was 83k. Haven't had the pleasure of skiing behind one yet but absolutely loved it. It has most everything well thought out and executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck_Dickey Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Supporting your local Promo boat owner is the best way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2014 @ShaneH...good to know. Have only 7 hours on our 13 TXi so will proabably break that in for an undetermined amount of seasons before moving into something else. Guess I know who to contact when the time is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Are we in the "golden days" of the slalom boat industry? All big 3 now have beautiful boats with great hulls that have great wakes from -15 all the way up the line, plus Centurion has a great option for those who need a tractor at a lower price,and gekko is getting back into it too. Seems like in 10 years I will have lots of good options for a 10 year old used boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 MSRP at the Mid-Atlantic Boat Show (Charlotte, NC) - local dealer = $89K....OUCH!!! Even with @Shane quoting 20% less = $71K. I would opt for a single axle trailer which might knock it down another $4K or so....Still looking at $67K. Now we are only $15K-$20K away. Promo is the only way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 I was quoted 50 something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 @MattP, you should buy as many as you can and flip them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I5boi Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Anyone can find out the true purchase price of a new PS and it's not MSRP. The real question is what is the value/price of a low hour PS promo? If you have or are going to have a low hour PS promo, I am accepting reverse auction bids (pm me with your best offer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 11, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted February 11, 2014 There are 2013 Pro Star 197s out there for 42K so I wonder what the 2014 promos will be selling for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 @MattP Our quote was in the $50's as well, albeit upper $50's. Supply your own trailer, and the MN boat show PS can be snagged for $53k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 11, 2014 here's one...(dang they're cool!) http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Tournament&postid=24726 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I5boi Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 10 hrs? Wonder if they are going with a 200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted February 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2014 @I5boi That is a long time Master Craft Promo owner. I know he had a 2012 promo for sale also. My guess is that he is just trying to sell one of the two boats he has. I have purchased a boat from him in the past and had good luck with it. I think his 2012 is also listed on ski it again at about 42,000. He sells his boat at a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted February 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2014 Nice looking boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I5boi Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 @ntx. Thanks, that's what I thought but there is a price listed which appears to be different than the other promo guys who say they can't advertise price. Might as well get a new one without a trailer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted February 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2014 I was told half that number with far fewer promos this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2014 135-150 for '14 due to the shortened production year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 @jdubs the issue with what you said is that wages will increase with inflation over time. Less people right now though are able to afford ski boats. My dad bought a brand new Sea Ray outboard a few years after graduating college. When I am out of college I expect it to be 7-10 years before I can get a decent boat (that said, I plan on getting an older cheap boat right out of college). People are losing purchasing power now, the problem isnt that inflation is occurring because it is always happening but the rate that the ski industry is going up is at a much faster rate than normal inflation. Just look at a new 196 to a new 200 when the 200 came out. They jumped thousands. Incomes that year did not jump thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hmm, my thought is that the boat mfgr's are trying recover as much of there investment as fast as they can, I don't blame them!! On top of that limited production run (just based in volume) and the requirement for an ROI in 3-5 years and that gives more than enough reason for high prices. The other factor is the "keeping up with the Joneses" there is a LOT of that going on - and that drives prices up too, because the mfg knows they can get that kind of price. I'm just going to be getting a promo boat if one is available. I don't need brand new - not with two kiddos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 Seems like in 10 years I will have lots of good options for a 10 year old used boat. What @crashman said. You can still buy a great, perfectly functional and really good condition slalom boat for $25 - 29K range and less if you do some digging. Might not be the latest hull, might not have ZO, but still a great and perfectly fine boat. When it's 5 - 10 years or so old with a few hundred hours on it, if that ain't good enough for you then buy new. New is for those who can afford new, and to those who can more power to ya. At this point IMO we're splitting hairs as to wake quality, tracking, blah blah blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 @ilivetoski I disagree. It might be that a 20 something can't afford it, but there are plenty of buyers out there who can, as production numbers are going up and not down. There is no rule that says boat prices must track cost of inflation. The fact that, regardless of price, the allotments sell out says that the market hasn't tapped out. So there is enough buying power to keep the prices propped up without correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 I agree with EZ Ed...in my opinion, the slalom boat was perfected in 1997 with the TSC1 hull. Pretty minimal wake tweaks since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 @ShaneH is right. The manufactures build what people buy. Most of us buy what we think we can sell. They maximize profits and we try to minimize our depreciation / loss when we trade up. My perfect "last" boat will be a solid white with light grey interior and ZO. Trouble is, I'm never going to buy it. How do I know if it is going to be the last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 @ShaneH but there are more people out there who are being priced out of a new ski boat. More people are priced out of it than those who can afford it. So why dont they come out with an economic boat (I mean a real economic boat, not one that $50k one thats $25k-$30k) and sell that to the market that is currently buying high end (not promo) used boats. Their leaving money on the table by not tapping into every market that they can. Why not have a MC or a Nautique with literally just the absolute bare essentials to be able to compete in tourneys? Leave the mindset of "we are a quality boat and for us to be quality we have to be in the 60-80k range". It would work great for the big 3 because people know the wakes and how they ski so will trust them. It is a lot better than a brand like Infiniti because no one knew how they skied (and from what I understand, people were very disapointed when they skied those boats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 Because every time they've done that in the past, no one has bought them. Think about the Malibu Tantrum, Ski Nautique 176, or Mastercraft Sport Star. Those were niche boats meant to be economical or to appeal to a more base buyer. And no one bought them. And if the same number of boats are being sold today at $60k+ as they were 10 years ago when the boats were $32k, then how are more people being priced out than in? That argument keeps getting brought up year over year, but the fact of the matter is, the market supports what it supports. And for the last 6 years, even through the economic downturn, it has supported $60k boats. If it didn't, production would be undersold and the Mfrs would be forced to lower production, lay off people, or lower prices. And if anything, they've added people and production. What I don't get is that the wakeboard crowd doesn't make the "we're being priced out argument" even though they've been hit with MUCH bigger increases in prices than the 3 event crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 isn't the "barebones boat" we're talking about the Gekko GTS20? Gekko website says it starts around 30k. I still think if my budget were 30k I would buy a well equipped boat that's a few years old especially since most slalom guys tend to be rather OCD about their watercraft. But if I'm wrong and the Gekkos go flying off the shelf and dent the market then good for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 The only thing I do know is that there is a 55% increase between the cost of the 09 nautique we bought and the price of the 14 nautique that was quoted. That is a awful lot in five years. @shaneh is right. If we keep buying them. They will keep selling. Pretty simple supply and demand. Every time I think they can't push it any higher they do and we keep buying. We are the problem. Not the manufacturer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 @livetoski most know I'm a budget minded boat buyer. I would never buy a bare bones big 3 new when I could get a decked out one a few years old with low hours for the same price. If you bought a cheap big 3 new, and I bought a lightly used top line big 3 and we wait 3 years. Who has the better boat and has maintained more resale as it relates to our respective purchase price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted February 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't know where I come out on this. My position on boats wetn out the window when I agreed to buy a new ProStar! Before that I was all about the used promo. I did option the boat to suit resale rather than to save money. For example, I got the rear seats and the bow seats even though they rarely, if ever, get used. I got a factory stereo, heated seats and a heater (good northern boat) because I figure these options will appeal to the next owner. I'm borrowing money either way - might as well have what I want. In my younger days I might have considered a stripped down, no options ProStar if I really wanted the hull. @6balls will probably have a bug in the boat so he can monitor the hour meter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck_Dickey Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 @Razorskier1 Please post some pictures when you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted February 14, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 14, 2014 @Chuck_Dickey. Should be delivered to MN first half of March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted February 14, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 14, 2014 Stop making sense @6balls, you will ruin this thread. Simple fact is the more "extras" you put in a boat, the more markup can be put on end price thus covering the years of R&D for that model. If sales increase annually, why would you dumb it down? People paying the asking price is the one and only factor which makes them so expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted February 14, 2014 Baller Share Posted February 14, 2014 The options definitely are where the big markups come in. Malibu CEO told me, for example, that metalflake gel is about 90% margin! Sure glad I didn't order any of that on my Prostar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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