Roof Over Ski Lake?

[Sethro]

I've been in several steel frame buildings with the width to house a slalom course, but typically not anywhere near long enough. But there is an old steel mill building nearby that is 2000' long and 300' wide. I had trouble concentrating on what I was supposed to be doing in there as all I could think about was laying out a course in there. Optimally, I envision an open building with only a roof, and I suppose lights, so the skiing could continue at night. I would think the roof and supporting steel frame structures would be sufficient to knock the wind down and keep the water calm in the wind.

 

So, is there such a place that anyone is aware of? It's certainly on my to do list if the wealth required to undertake such a project ever comes my way.

[ForrestGump]

Clearspans(no columns inside the perimeter) over 150ft get VERY expensive. A 200' by 2000' building(minimum you could get by with) would run about $2 million right now, not including the slab or footings.

[Waternut]

Plenty of aircraft hangars out there that could at least house the course itself but they are protecting billions of dollars of aircraft and not protecting a lake from adverse weather. As awesome as it would be, I can't see me being able to stomach the price of a set at an indoor slalom course.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I'd think it's really hard to make such a structure without any interior posts? Posts would hurt :)

 

Ah, I see Shane beat me to it with some better info. Frankly 2 megabucks sounds like a deal to me -- I would have guessed a lot higher. However, I do not seem to have that much cash in my wallet...

[ToddL]

Put the post at 5-ball... Horton never makes it to 5-ball anyway.

[alex38]

just put the posts where the buoys are... ski right around them.

[ForrestGump]

@Than_Bogan You can definitely get clearspans wide enough. But the steel perimeter columns and trusses are really heavy and require deep concrete footers, and therefore very, very expensive. 150' clearspan is pretty common in commercial construction. 200' clearspan almost doubles the cost of 150', yet is only 25% wider.

[Murrski]

Contact Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys. I'd propose a 160ft video wall for replay purposes at each end to watch during your drop. Retractable roof to allow natural solar heating when necessary. Beaches and cabanas providing a little Vegas - Rehab atmosphere. Some stadium seating with an extreme sound system to attract all walks of life. 900 million should cover it... no big deal!!! lol. Funny thing is... I've had this dream before and woke up laughing!

[skiray]

That might happen if there is a ski club in Dubai....

 

I would settle for a "batting cage" approach with a tight weave mesh. Concrete poles, wires, mesh - instant wind protection.

 

Who am I'm kidding, I'd settle for a short winter. Heck, a mild day would work. This artic blast sucks!

[Wayne]

What about those inflatable domes? I've seen driving ranges, Olympic swimming pools and soccer fields in them and they are clear span. That should get you to 220 or so feet wide and based on the way they are built I think length is modular.

 

Also ClearSpan Fabric buildings are offered up to a 300 foot span.

[Zman]

@Murrski maybe you could get your local city to fund the construction, to help economic development - just like many pro sports arenas. Then sell $10 draft beers too!

[ozski]

While your at it build a pulley system from the roof down and dispense with the boat. I have some rough drawings.

[crashman]

I envision more of a flow rider application- where instead of using a boat the jetted water moves underneath the skier. This polar vortex has us dreaming big- or maybe just going insane.

[mwetskier]

safest slalom course in the world just focused colored spotlights shining straight down from the rafters.

[pumpinpete]

Save the money

Head to Ski Paradise Acapulco instead and ski your butt off for a very long time for how much that 200' clearspan would cost

Perfect conditions, weather , company, coaching accom and facilities

BUT a covered all weather day night ski facility would BE FANTASTIC

@ozski I agree cable would be good way to go. Tried cable ski just before Christmas and really enjoyed it though it was set up for wake boarding -slow & short run- but great fun with the "Big Daddy"

[ozski]

I don't mean cable, I mean gear driven mechanical from an overhead rail with the ski pole coming down. A little hard to explain without a drawing but it would give you the ultimate straight line and pull.

[WBLskier]

Who wants to be inside more than we have to be already? Retractable roof required I think.

[klindy]

Timely idea. Here's some wakeboarders in the UK in a parking garage - Video link in the article.

 

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/outposts/post/wakeboarders-use-flooded-parking-garage-sans-boat/

[klindy]

Here's a building in SW Michigan we actually looked into making it an indoor facility to trick ski. The idea was to add some 'turn around' areas on either end of the structure. The building in the picture is 1000' long, 90' wide and a dirt floor. Excavation would have been simple.

 

As Shane said the building itself is simple - potentially expensive but easy to achieve the spans needed to install a slalom course. Where you run into a real problem is in designing a mechanical system substaintial enough to keep the humidity somewhere close to bearable. Without it a simple metal building would deteriorate so quickly you couldn't maintain it. For this back yard project above the HVAC system was projected to easily be the most expensive part of the job. The cost to run it was shocking.

 

Anyway, certainly could be done just need the $$$ to do it.

[jipster43]

There's a hot spring for sale about an hour from Bozeman that I've often daydreamed about enclosing with a ski lake. Of course it would be expensive, but not out of the question for ANY of the folks spinning laps at The Yellowstone Club today.

 

It would be so cool to have 24 hour, 365 day access to glass calm water.

[jipster43]

Pony Hot Springs. Chico would be lovely, but I'd want an outdoor lake as well and Chico is literally one of the windiest places on earth.

[chris_logan]

The steel mill construction project I am currently on has a building that is 2,340' x 225' x 65' clearspan (main forging building). I have, on many occasions, told people here that it would easily house a waterski lake, with a jump...that is, if it weren't for all the crazy deep and thick concrete equipment foundations and overhead cranes.

[BraceMaker]

Would it not get a lot simpler if you followed the "suicide lake" lay out

 

http://www.schnitzskis.com/images/445_Coyote_Lake.jpg

 

There are clearly areas that could be utilized to support the roof spans and drastically reduce costs.

 

With certain practical considerations such as training so no one is skiing near them...

[19skier]

Been wondering about my mental state as I recently considered driving 500 miles to beg for a tow at Bro Ho Lake - after reading this thread I can tell winter is getting to a bunch of skiers.

[kurt]

I am willing to let anybody try it on my lake, ski all year.......hmmmmm it might be less expensive than the psych ward

[chris_logan]

@kurt your lake makes it even trickier since it looks like you have to factor in snow loads and heat in as well.

[drewski]

I remember waterski mag posting an article about 7 or 8 years ago on a college engineer (waterskier) who designed a partially indoor stadium on CAD for one of his classes. It was really interesting. Anyone else remember this article or have a link to it?

[Wish]

I think it appeared on BOS. Could be remembering that wrong. I did a quick search but found nothing. I remember the stadium vividly. Very cool and impressive.

[thager]

Wasn't it TFin?

[skibug]

I think I still have that issue at home, I will have to check.

 

[The_MS]

Schnitz put a study together that was for a desert location. With the evaporation costs at an outdoor site in the heat, it would have paid for itself over time. I cant remember the detail of cost vs time.

[Than_Bogan]

@BraceMaker That is both brilliant and the worst idea ever! :)

[BraceMaker]

@than_bogan - agreed - would work wouldn't it.

[Wish]

..was a worse idea to spend the money to cut a lake like that and NOT cover it. Would hate to get into a lean lock, especially if there was a support post. Guess it's the same a dodging chair lift poles at the ski resorts.

[gsm_peter]

I would love to have one in Sweden.

Fully indoor with some heated water.

Hmmmm ok heated could be 40F.

BUT the cost will be outrageous.

Dimesioning for snow load is type 100 lbs/ sqr feet.

Worst I have ever heared of was 300....

 

[WBLskier]

How about an inflated dome? They are tearing down the metrodome in Minneapolis as we speak.

[jedgell]

I've often dreamed of a covered ski lake in MT. How sweet would it be to hit the slopes one day and take a couple slalom sets the next. Just need to win Powerball.

[klindy]

Again the structure is the smallest part of the problem. Metal building, inflatable dome, open sides, fully enclosed all would be possible under most loading conditions. The worst challenge to overcome is HVAC specifically dealing with the moisture.

 

A structural engineer would say "no problem". The mechanical engineer designng the HVAC would say "it's gonna cost you". Of course if it was just a roof (open sides) that would solve the moisture issue but open sides wouldn't solve the weather issue which would be the primary reason to cover the lake.

[Chuck_Dickey]

Didn't Steve Schnitzer cover this topic a few years back?

[gator1]

@sethro, if you were chasing a perp in there and your mind was wandering you need to demand a paid leave to get some turns in somewhere in FL. Your lack of suitable swerving opportunities has become a safety issue.

[skier2788]

I always wondered if the wasn't an underground cave somewhere along a coast line that would be large enough to ski in. If it was under ground all you would have to do is light it. Stay warmish all year round and no wind ever.

[Wayne]

The fabric building from ClearSpan will deal with moisture. You actually want a leaky building then just blow hot air in it and let the air loss carry the moisture out. This is how an Olympic pool at a YMCA I used to swim at was set up. They kept the water heated to 60f but of the outside temp got below 20 the pool heater wouldn't keep up. The warm air really made it feel more comfortable and if you were swimming laps the cold water was usually welcome. Heating the water was actually the biggest cost.

[PBD]

The gobenment already has half a solution in place 1,000 x 300. As you can see there are 2 hangers on site but they aren't sequential. And the base has been closed so you might be able to get a deal.

 

militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html

 

 

[Sethro]

@gator1, wasn't chasing anyone, but I was "investigating" clues left behind. :)

 

I really like your train of thought. I figure if I just take a picture of Bruce with me to Florida, I can stop at ski lakes telling the owners I live next door to him and they'll offer a pull.

 

Maybe I would want sides on the building, as long as they are retractable to some degree. I can't imagine the costs of controlling the climate inside such a structure.

[Sethro]

Here is a picture of the 2000' long building. Too bad it has cement floor.

[roda]

The US Navy has a 3000' x 51' indoor pool for rent. Even has a tow cable system in place. Call your congressman and suggest an economic stimulus project to widen it.

 

http://blogs.defensenews.com/intercepts/2013/07/keepin-it-cool-with-the-international-submarine-races/

 

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nswc/carderock/pub/tours.aspx

 

 

 

 

[klindy]

@roda that would be an IDEAL trick lake!

[MattP]

@Sethro concrete can be removed

[MISkier]

@MS and @Chuck_Dickey, I recall the enclosed ski lake proposal by Schnitz as well. It was about 6-7 years ago or so. His estimated cost then was $5 million and I believe that was just for the building. I even tried to locate it on his website yesterday - with no luck. At the time, he also had a separate Florida project (not enclosed) designed that was a 4-lake square complex with the houses in the middle and the lakes serving as the four sides of the square. In the very center was a small round lake for the inner homes not on the perimeter lakes to maintain lifts and idle via canal to one of the perimeter lakes, which were all interconnected by small canals at their ends - the corners of the square. It was kind of intriguing and was a departure from the multiple parallel lakes (in rows) layout that is common. It also hedged your wind exposure with lakes in two directions to choose from.

 

I am not sure of the exact year, but I was either posting on the old Nicholls forum or its replacement, The Water Ski Forum, at around the same time. And that site has been gone for a little while.

[BraceMaker]

Obviously the solution is not to "roof a lake" but to build your lake in the middle of a bunch of other buildings such that their exterior walls are your wall, then cover the span.

 

Similarly those other buildings are then commercial units of some description, and are sold to tenants who heat them, giving you 4 warm walls.