Skiing Increasingly Pricing Out Middle Class

[Ed_Obermeier]

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/high-peaks-lofty-prices-skiing-increasingly-pricing-out-middle-class-2D11619010?ocid=msnhp&pos=6

 

Found this interesting and though it was worth sharing. This article addresses the rising cost of snow skiing but I couldn't help but think there is a huge parallel to water skiing, especially considering the discussion about the pricing for the new MC ProStar and on how the costs of participation affect growing the sport in general.

[MISkier]

That article just made me realize how old I am. In 1987, I decided to take my senior college spring break as a snow skiing trip to Winter Park in Colorado. The cost of the train from/to Chicago, 5 days of lodging, and 5 days of skiing was $400 total. I don't remember what I spent on food, booze and incidentals, but it was not a lot. I do recall that parking my car in a ramp across from Union Station was $50 for the week. In the early 90s, I remember paying $25 for two sets of slalom coaching at a private lake and the school had their new MasterCraft listed for $16,000 at the end of the season. Those prices are different today for sure.

 

There are parallels to water skiing for sure: equipment in the thousands, club memberships (lift tickets), and the comment about the core audience getting older and not being replaced by younger participants.

[Horton]

I am insanely lucking to have been able to ski for the last 10 years. I owe most of that to the generosity of others. Next spring I look forward to doing the same for others.

[bkreis]

If it weren't for rocky and Laura Pasqua, Henrik and Kim Laursen, and a few others initially13 years ago,at greater miami ski club, I would not have been able to ski unless I was at ski school....sooooo grateful to be part of a great ski community.

[thager]

Don't buy new boats. I run an 02 SN with ZO I installed myself. Not that hard. Saved a lot of bucks. New skis are great but not a necessity. I went with RTM Fisher and then Razor for their longevity, or buy used skis. Lots of Wallys that buy the latest ski to right behind the boat or check out Ski - it - again and crags lisp. Where there's a will their is a way!

[thager]

@Horton BUDDY!!!

[Wish]

Fixer upper lake home that I've fixed up. 97SN kept pristine. Never owned a new ski accept the one replaced by OBrien. Build my one boots and other items attached to the ski. Used wet suits (accept the new CAMARO!!). Used buoys (yep..just ask @OB how good they look). Used PT lumber for my dock that I built.

 

I am a skier on an extreme budget and managed to put myself in a decent place rankings wise. It can be done. Work hard, be creative and find a way.

 

I do agree however that the upper income folks can swing this a lot easier.

 

My biggest problem now is getting my daughter back out west for some snow skiing on the cheap. I do miss the white stuff when I'm skiing on it and she absolutely loves it!!!!!

[DefectiveDave]

No way I'd be skiing right now without a ski club the Lake Norman area. It's a great way to meet like minded people with whom to ski. Just got married and bought a house, so a boat wasn't anywhere in that budget. Ski equipment wasn't really in the budget either, but luckily I was able to raid my parents ski shack for some old functional equipment! This past year I was happy just to know people who own boats with whom I could hitch a ride. It's so much easier to swing gas money instead of boat money when you're on a budget.

 

However, I got my parents old 1992 Nautique running at the end of this year, so hopefully next year I'll be able to return the favors and be one of the guys with a boat. I just hope it keeps running!

[fu_man]

Short answer...yes. Seems like upper middle class are just getting their foot in the door. I owe a lot to a handful of friends and hope to pay it forward (just bought a boat this fall).

[skihard]

It is a challenge to say the least! My wife and I sacrificed a lot to get where we are today. And for me that meant no skiing for over 16 years.

I was able to get back into the life style (and introduce my wife to boating) by starting with an 89 Supra tsm Comp. We used it for two years then we upgraded to a newer open hull Moomba Outback so my daughter could bring friends with her to the lake. Then through luck I got transferred south and was fortunate enough to be able to buy on a private lake and build a home. Not a mansion but a home. Sold the boat when we moved and now have my Nautique 196LE.

Like others on here I did what I could afford? A new boat........just asking my wife might cause a divorce LOL. However I am fortunate enough to have a partner who may not have the love for the sport and lifestyle I do but she does enjoy it a lot and supports it even though she doesn't ski at all.

I'm in no way shape or form "Upper Class" by pay scale. It took us a long time to get where we are and have what we have...........2 new ski's in the last 6 years and some ropes and gloves. I did save enough money to get some new bindings this year. Oh I mean new to me as they are 2012 Radar Stradas.

There will always be people who can afford or are willing to finance the farm for new boats and guys like me will wait for them to want the newest ones so I can afford an upgrade.

At my age I think 1 more boat after this one and my comp boat days are over.

I agree 100% with @fu_man that people are being out priced - but I also believe like others on this forum that you can still ski and get involved in the sport if you are willing to do it with "OLDER or USED" boats and equipment.

[Chuck_Dickey]

Giving back to the sport is essential. Kids 18 and younger ski for free with me and adults are $20 per set.

[DW]

In this snapshot in time all activities that rely on a fair amount of equipment are becoming less available to average workers - wages are flat / equipment cost is rising. So anybody close to the edge, will be phased out as they choose food over fun. Bummer.

[6balls]

I get away on the serious cheap. $17K for the 196 in 2010, new buoys for each of 2 courses annually(split 2 ways) and rented dock space ($750 split 2 ways) on a "public" swamp no one uses but us. Prior to the 2000 SN 196 bought in 2010 we skied a '87 MC 190 with PP.

 

I do buy new skis every 3 yrs or so and typically sell the old one. Ropes, handles, gloves for xmas. Would really like a ZO boat, but haven't been able to justify the cost...as they depreciate I may jump in there. For now, though, pretty fortunate and pretty cheap. It can be done.

[MrJones]

It is definitely give and take. Most of our available fun money goes to (Water) skiing. I would love to snow ski more, but it's costly. Plane tickets for 5 would be terrible, so we are driving to Copper Mountain in the spring. One of the goals is family time so we'll get a lot of that on the drive. Our goal is to make it out New Mexico or Colorado every other year, but in this instance it has been 3. (I realize this is alot different that you guys who are close enough to snow to make winter skiing a serious hobby.

[Monkstr6100]

I agree that the prices and "class" level is getting pretty high in the ski community. I got my first new (2011 demo) ski this year. Last ski I had was 10+ years old. Got my first DD this year (a 2006) for $17k after selling my truck, speed boat, pontoon boat, and saving for three years, paid cash! The only reason I could afford a 2006 was cause I purposely went with Gekko, considered by many to not be the best, but I LOVE all the value packed into it for the price, and don't care that it's not a MC, CC, or a MALIBU. I have been to a few events with my wife and daughter just as spectators and can tell we do not "fit in". Please do not get me wrong at all here! There are and have been tons of awesome people I have met and know through this sport, but I think it will continue to be "small" until it is made more available to your average JOE. Just the two cents of the average joe welder at a power plant that is proud as hell to make ends meet with my wife raising our daughter at home. Very blessed.

[A_B]

I'm just cheap.

Used a student loan for a down payment on my first SN.

Bought a borrow pit with two friends 30+ years ago. A promo boat costs more than what we have in the lake.

[bigtex2011]

maybe we should all watch a few episodes of breaking bad. He's got some cash.. :)

[jhughes]

It's really about the TIME, folks. Basically it's the working stiffs out there like me who have to really shoehorn in the ski time. Generally people that ski more than I do are able to because they are retired, own their own business with a super convenient schedule, have summers off, or don't have to work at all for some reason (e.g. have wealth, etc.). We have multiple dentists, retirees, teachers, and entrepreneurs at our lake. If I could find the time to ski even more then I would not worry about the money portion.

[matt_b]

Horton, are you moving to a lake site or ?

[Edbrazil]

How things have changed from when I first skied (both snow and water). And had to chase the dinosaurs away before skiing.

 

--When I was in grade & high school, my local ski area was 50 cents/day if you were a "County Student". Now, a full day weekend/holiday ticket is $75. Although, there is now a great deal on a Lifetime Season Pass when you get to age 70.

--Back when, in the days of Aqua Sport wooden skis, their top-of-the-line jumpers with bindings went for $65. And, people complained those laminated skis were expensive.

--In the days of Ultra Pond, late 1970's, our boat cost a little over $7,000, and we were able to get a bank loan each year, just pay interest for 6 months, and sell/upgrade each year.

--We charged about $26. for our tournaments, which was a bit high at the time, but the SL course was surveyed and you could set records at the site. Which was the case for a Wayne Grimditch jump record at 5.5 feet, and some close calls on World SL records.

[drewski]

This is all I know as far as pricing goes. I have been fortunate to join clubs and have ski buddies to ski, but it is a pretty penny for sure. Especially if you want to ski multiple times a week.

@MISkier I do know that waterskiing has never been bigger in the Collegiate scene and it is fun to introduce new people to the sport.

 

Jodi Fisher is doing a great job collecting old equipment with his program "Ski it Forward" - to distribute it out to collegiate ski teams and other people who dont have up to date or proper equipment. Just something to think about as we all have had great experiences and are lucky enough to still be skiing!

[Horton]

@Matt_B not that would be too easy and affordable. I purchased a house at one of the lakes in Bakersfield but will not be living there.

[rockdog]

Had to sell my old boat to purchase our first house, then went without for 5 or 6 years. Joined a club (expensive and 2 hours away) and finally got my first SN 2 years ago after much discussion with my wife. It's a '97 but runs beautifully and I love it.

 

Similar to @skihard, she isn't really into it but supports me and we hope to get our 2 little ones into skiing. Also recently for the first time got a second hand ski rather than new (near new though good price). Add to this new ropes jackets, wetsuits, gloves etc it doesn't come cheap, but I agree with most that it can be done.

 

Hardest part is finding the time and a crew who all want to go at the same time.

[DCinVA]

Water skiing at the competitive level has become very expensive. New boat prices are just stupid, a high end ski is just as bad. On the other hand, good used ski boats can be had for cheap, and if well cared for will last a very long time. Some of my best memories of skiing were on the river, dodging the rollers and cursing at the jet skiers. I have met more people and made more friends skiing on public water, than I have skiing on a private lake. Having said all that, if you are chasing rankings, as most of us are, it can be expensive, if you are just out to have some fun, you really can do it on the cheap.

 

[Skoot1123]

If managed right you can still ski. It all depends in what your priorities are. If you want to "do everything" then it would be tough to stay with it. Ski prices are high, but when you consider development time and marketing and profit - are they? For me that just means I can't get a new one every year - but honestly I don't need a new ski every year. Boats? I partnered with my father in law to get a boat and we didn't get a MC, SN, or BU. Our boat serves us well, not the best wake, but better than what we used to have. The generosity of others has been shown to us - paying it forward as we can.

[LeSkiAvantTout]

Not a particularly expensive sport in UK at entry level, certainly relative to say golf. Most clubs allow you to turn up and take a 12/15 min set for £25, sometimes cheaper esp off season. Obviously if you want your own high end boat etc that's expensive, but that's your own choice and doesn't make the sport the preserve of the wealthy.

[Jdubs]

I will try to stay away from politics on this, but this sport has never been really cheap nor is it looking like its going that way. If you look at the past you can see a parallel between the cost of a mildly equipped Corvette compared to a nicely equipped MC or SN ski boat. It takes the roughly the same amount of gold bars to buy a new boat it as it did in years past. It just takes a lot more dollars to buy anything. They just keeps printing dollars at higher and higher speeds these days.

[Horton]

Personal recollection is far from scientific but I swear that 20 – 25 years ago a large percent of skiers were construction workers and school teachers. Today I do know very few blue collar skiers and the only school teacher I know that skis purchased a lake place when it was super cheap.

 

My view may be skewed as a Californian. We have very little affordable or club water access. I can only think if 2 courses on public water that I have ever skied on in SoCal.

I have heard stuff like “when we left public water was the beginning of the decline of the sport”. Here in SoCal it was private water or nothing. That is why the private manmade lake was invented here (thanks dad).

 

I think the cost of skis makes sense. No one likes to pay $1500 to $2000 for a ski but if you do the math you would not want to start a ski company and do it for less. A lot of the cost of boats is the result of layers of regulation and litigation. I do not think boat companies are making huge margins on boats. Ya know they have to make a profit to stay alive, right?

 

I have talked to someone recently about a $500 high end ski. It could be done but it would require a radical business model and a boat load of luck.

 

[A_B]

I think the black sticks proved fancy wraps and graphics were not a necessity.

[Horton]

wraps and graphics cost almost nothing and sell skis to the general public

[rockdog]

@horton I'm not sure I quite agree. Here in Oz I would say there are still just as many Blue collars as always, the difference being those are the guys (not all) whose wages have gone way up. They are not generally "skiers", but more just "boaties" who can now afford to buy new Wakesetters and the like, so that money is not going towards clubs to support tournament skiing or club sites.

 

We have a severe lack of public courses in my state of Victoria, barely a handful. Joining a club is really the only way to go, but even those are few and FAR between plus they are all on public water and at a cost of around $500 yearly, it can be expensive when you add on the fuel cost to get there, ski ride cost etc. It really is an effort to get your skiing to a decent level and requires commitment. Building a private manmade would almost be impossible, unless on a farm or similar where one individual bears the whole cost, anywhere in this state. I cannot image having manmade lake communities available, not even a dream I could bring myself to have.

[gator1]

Although ours is an economy transitioning from capitalism to something else, it is still close enough to capitalism that the theory mainly works. There is no near-monopolistic hold any of the boat or ski manufacturers have on the market, so capitalism holds the price we pay for boats and skis to an acceptable profit for a skilled business operator. If we were being gouged, more businesses would enter the market. I don't see a lot of benefit to bitching about what the products cost.

 

Demographics is a different story. There is less of a middle class now than 20 years ago. Therefore less of a slice to get into ski tournaments.

 

But, IMO the main issue is that performance levels have driven many out of the sport. Not gouging manufacturers or shifting demographics.

 

When I started in '78, I could ski behind a 10 year old boat on public water with a course anchored with rocks with no speed control and be very competitive.

 

The cost of a 10 year old boat, public water, milk jugs and some rocks hasn't increased in real dollars. However, placing in a regional tournament with that setup, skiing against guys running space age boats on glass smooth water every day has become almost unheard of.

 

And I can't comment on what happened in California. That's, as far as I can tell, a different country.

[Ed_Obermeier]

But, IMO the main issue is that performance levels have driven many out of the sport. Not gouging manufacturers or shifting demographics.

 

When I started in '78, I could ski behind a 10 year old boat on public water with a course anchored with rocks with no speed control and be very competitive.

 

The cost of a 10 year old boat, public water, milk jugs and some rocks hasn't increased in real dollars. However, placing in a regional tournament with that setup, skiing against guys running space age boats on glass smooth water every day has become almost unheard of.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with your statements @gator1. To the best of my knowledge, probably less that 10% of "serious" water skiers ski tournaments at all. I know plenty of skiers who could compete pretty successfully in tournaments who could care less about tournaments. They ski for the fun and for the personal challenge. I really can't see that not being competitive in a tournament setting really makes much difference to the vast majority of skiers.

 

IMO the cost of the sport, the availability of slalom courses, and to a lesser extent access to inboard boats are the primary factors with course access being probably the largest hurdle. I got into course skiing by coming across a course on a public lake, tried it, was immediately hooked. Not many public courses around anymore. How you gonna know you love course skiing if you're never exposed to it?

 

Now. IF you want to compete with the Big Dogs you're right, if you don't have equivalent conditions, time, and equipment to practice with you're definitely at a competitive disadvantage. But that is an entirely different issue. The vast majority of serious skiers (didn't say "good", said "serious") could really care less.

[6balls]

@gator1 no doubt. The only time I used to ski an inboard was at a tourney winning state titles at the time in M1 and M2. I skied a hand-timed outboard for training and there was a lot of free skiing in there, too. Now I feel a little hamstrung training on PP and showing up at a tourney and skiing ZO.

 

Everything is more precise, knowledge/theory more common-place, fitness is better into M3 and beyond, equipment and boats have improved greatly. Combine all of this and scores are up beyond where the outboard skiing, public lake hack has a shot.

 

We all have a shot to improve personally, though, even it we can't "win" or achieve a high ranking. Cool thing is rounding buoys is a riot...I loved it when I sucked, I love it now, I want to be better. I like to hit a few tourneys...but if I never saw another I'd be ok as long as I get my fix regularly during the season. Better yet I get to a few tourneys, chew the fat, enjoy a few drinks and see what I can do while cheering for everyone else to rock a PB.

[swc5150]

I honestly don't think this sport is getting more expensive. It's always been expensive. A new CB 200 price hasn't inflated much more, if at all, than the fancy new truck pulling it. A tournament boat has always been a high priced head turner on the lake. Todd R write a great article in WSM a few years back on this. He talked about the price of the sport, but families who want to partake find a way.

[Zman]

I think @Horton is right, there are fewer blue collar workers who are serious in this sport. Costs have gone up, but, to the most part only wages of white collar workers have kept up with the increase. Pretty solid data out there showing average blue collar wages not quite even keeping up with inflation. Just the world we live in now. I'm fortunate to be white color, but remember my roots and hope this widening gap trend changes for everyone's good. Peace, out.

[gator1]

@ed obermeier. And i most respectfully stick with my original statement, since, at least in my experience, the public courses are no longer there because they were installed and maintained by the tournament guys, who have migrated to private sites. Because they had to in order stay competitive.

 

So, we lose the chance to make addicts out of all the type A personality folks, who, tourney skiers or not, can't get hooked without an objective way to measure their performances. And it's those addicts who create the whole sport.

[A_B]

Aside from the boat, skiing is kind of like golf. Even a decent public course is $40 for a round. Do that 2 or 3 times a week, with a golf vacation thrown in, new clubs, balls, a new glove every few times, grips, etc...

A lot of blue collar golfers. Just easier to access.

[Ed_Obermeier]

If indeed it was the tournament guys who used to put up most of the public courses, in migrating to private sites they have unwittingly made the sport even more exclusive of the people who might have become tournament skiers had they had an opportunity to try a (public) course. That might be your personal experience @gator1 but the reality is that 90+% of skiers who have of their own accord gotten into course skiing using portable courses or whatever public courses still exist don't really give a damn about organized tournament skiing or competing for rankings or whatever. If you're a die hard tournament guy that's great, but if that is your primary connection to the skiing public you likely have a myopic view of the sport. I talk to a LOT of public water skiers from all over the planet. Most aren't tournament skiers and most could care less.

[gator1]

I'm not a die hard tourney guy. I hadnt skied a tourny for years until last year, and then one. We are in violent agreement that the migration has unwittingly made the sport more exclusive. Do you agree there are less public courses, and therefore less chance for average guy to get into course skiing also, as a result of the migration?

[Ed_Obermeier]

I completely agree. I hear the horror stories all the time. Lakes that used to allow permits for public courses no longer allow permits. Missouri is one of the worst. The diehards are forced onto private sites to the detriment of the sport as a whole. Those who don't have that opportunity (I'm unfortunately in that group) use a portable course; a lot of lakes will still allow that but won't allow a permanent structure to be installed. Using a portable comes with it's own set of issues (wind, Wally's and other various idiots, etc). Many more require a "temporary buoy permit" which can be a bitch to get (Michigan is one example) to even be allowed to use a portable.

 

The average guy who enjoys skiing but doesn't have ready course access either makes the leap and buys a portable, just free skis (never knowing the fun of chasing buoys), or they drop out. The migration to private sites had definitely been a negative for the sport as a whole. But that is not the fault of the folks moving to private sites - they're doing what they have to do and are able to do and I'd do it myself if I had the opportunity. It doesn't bode well for the growth of the sport as a whole. Despite all of that, those of us who want to do it manage to find a way.

[JohnN]

Whether we like it or not, performance snow skiing and performance water skiing are both very much exclusive clubs that you have to work your way into, and for both sports being on the "inside" or "local" can make all the difference, money-wise. Retail in either world is a killer for any serious enthusiast making under 6 figures and only the sub-retail (promo, ep, pro, discount, blem, rep, etc) market keeps both performance snow skiing and water-skiing alive.

[oldjeep]

@SkiBrain in MN a higher percentage than you might think, the Nastar based race programs are pretty popular. Masters racing is a whole other thing, those tend to be the elite racers - I'd be at the bottom of that group.

 

You are correct about the mags, they don't really cover any racing gear. I'd say that they lack of coverage has more to do with the race guys already being in contact with the stores and reps long before any of the equipment could wind up in a magazine test.

 

The benefit of the snow ski racing is that anyone with $5-$10 can run a Nastar course at their local ski hill, so the accessibility is much better than water ski courses where you either need to know someone, pay someone or buy a course.

 

Down to $$$$. A season of local racing for me is around $500 - season pass, league fee and some random tickets and fees for other local hills. Pretty affordable. Equipment wise, depends on what/when and how often you buy. Previous year new stuff is generally the way I go - sells for 1/3 at that point. The expensive part is if you start doing Masters, which requires travel or if you go to Nationals for Nastar. I've qualified for nationals the last 4 years and gone twice - at around $2500 by the time you are all done, that gets expensive even if you make a fair amount of $$.

 

Even with all that, its cheaper than waterskiing - there is no boat equivalent in downhill ;)

[skihard]

I often wonder about classifying the "Blue Collar" dudes and dudetts?

Until my family was transfered south we ski'd on open water. The costs of boats is in my mind a non factor - where I moved from there were more Malibu's, Moomba's, Supra's, and Air Nautiques hitting the water every year. And to do what? Not ski they purchased high end high $$$ boats to wake board and surf.

And the people doing this are "Blue Collar" guys. I know this because it was my boating buddies that were buying these big wave making boats.

I asked a buddy of mine on a wim why he invested over $75,000 in a big wave maker instead of less money into a good open bow ski boat and he never hesitated one second when he said "Nobody likes skiing as much anymore. They want to play on wakeboards, surfboards, tubes, and listen to loud music on the water. The other advantage is I can put 10 - 12 people on my boat and go out for the whole afternoon without coming back to the dock!"

From a guy who is now lucky enough to have a dock and his boat just feet from his deck I can understand that totally coming from my past.

And looking back on it when we did go to the lake to ski it was usually JUST the skiers. The big boats would join us when they wanted too. Full of people ready to have fun together as a group.

I see even less and less open water skiers too. Whether behind a proper DD boat or an outboard family boat.

Skiing itself as a whole; two skis, single ski, slalom skiing is going by the wayside to wakeboarding and surfing.

That is where "Blue Collar" went!

[oldjeep]

@OB Lift lines? Unless you are talking about a holiday or maybe a destination ski resort, they don't exist. Skiing has been dieing for decades, snowboarding and other forms of park rats had started to reverse the decline at ski areas but even that is dieing off now. In the late 80's and early 90's I was a ski instructor, so I was at the local hill almost ever day and it was generally busy. For a variety of reasons I quit skiing for 10 years and started back in 2009 - there is nobody at the ski areas. I was out at my home race hill saturday and there were under 100 people.

 

As for why bring people into the sport? If snow skiing is dieing then Waterskiing is circling the drain on life support. Take a trip out some time off the private ski lakes to a real lake, waterskiing is almost non existant. Wakeboarding isn't even really that prevelant - the boats are all being used to tube. The guys I waterski with are all 65+ (I'm 43) and they make a big effort to get as many people to try out skiing as they can (course, no course whatever) because they realize that the sport is dieing (and they like teaching).

[LeonL]

I don't know how it could be done, other than ask them or people who know them.........what are the occupations of the guys who skied in the Big Dawg finals? Are only a few of them "blue collar"? Are none of them?

[MattP]

@leonL Jeff Rodgers is a well digger. I'm pretty sure Badal owns a construction company.

[Horton]

clarification

 

when I use the term “blue collar" I most certainly do not mean it in a derogatory fashion. I used it to be shorthand for people of less means.

 

it seems like most of the people that I'm around in skiing are much more affluent than the average American. I think this is a shame.

[oldjeep]

None of the "blue collar" people I know would take it that way. It just means that you actually work for a living ;) And FWIW, an experienced union plumber is making into 6 figures around here so it is not like being blue collar neccessarily indicates an income level.

[fu_man]

@oldjeep I would suspect that the tends you have stated are prevalent in many areas. Maybe my situation is rare but I thought it was worth mentioning because it is contrary to what you are describing. Maybe just an isolated case but I have observed a significant increase in skiers on our lake over the past 2 years. I am on a pubilc lake in northern Illinois and have seen every type of ski apparatus that I can think of. Of course there are wakeboarders on the lake but we also have trickers, footers (with jump), and although we don't have a show ski team I have seen people out there practicing on a swivel ski. We now have 2 guys that own fly boards. Most importantly however, every weekend there are kids and young adults banging out sets on a pair of combos, a kneeboard, or a slalom ski behind an average joe outboard or I/O. There are more people being introduced to skiing rather than wakeboarding. Maybe this is just my neck of the woods but I'm hopeful that this trend can continue and maybe spread. Although I like to slalom on a course on flat water, nothing makes me happier than to see a random 10 year old kid on a pair of combos bent way over at the waist being dragged around behind an outboard through all the weekend chop...and loving it.