[Moderated Topic] Micro adjustment for bindings available

[OTF]

Hey ballers, a while back @horton made a request for an attachment that would give more options and make small accurate adjustments to binding placement.

The attached image shows an assembly we are currently manufacturing to accomplish this. This attachment allows you to make adjustments of under 1/16 of an inch accurately and quickly. They are made from 6061 aluminum and finished with a black anodize. There will be a website up soon with links for purchase as well as adjustment and mounting videos. The unit will be priced at $75.00 ea and will include the bits and hardware necessary to mount as well as shipping within the U.S. There will also be an option to have us mount this to your plate using our precision milling machine for you if you are concerned about damaging your plate. This charge will be an extra $20.00. If you would like to purchase now you can contact me through my ball of spray account. We are working to get the website up and running for this coming week. I anticipate a 2-3 week delivery time right now as we are just starting to build these units in production.

 

Have a great weekend!

[davemac]

@OTF, could you clarify pricing of $75/unit? Does each plate require 1 or 2 unit(s)?

Thanks.

[Horton]

@davemac

Each plate needs only one unit. I can not speak for these guys specifically but seems that everyone that looked at this project came to the conclusion that the second side made things complicated and did not add any value.

[OTF]

Each plate only needs 1. The original plan was for two, after we mounted the first side we quickly saw no reason for a second.

[gregy]

Nice

[ToddL]

So, let me confirm what wasn't noted above, but appears to be evident in the pics...

 

For this to work, your binding system must have slots for the front and rear screws. Your binding would typically also have a series of machined holes for the middle screw to mount the binding at set positions.

 

This solution requires that the middle screw's series of holes be drilled out until it also resembles a long slot. (So, now all screw mount positions in the plate are all slots.) The new unit is attached to the binding plate via a small (counter sunk?) screw. The interlocking track and screw "washer" allow for you to line up your bolt with your insert in your ski while allowing the 1/16th adjustments based upon these two pieces nesting together.

 

This solution also requires converting the other side of the plate's middle screw holes into a slot even though the interlocking unit is only required on one side. This is because the standard binding mounting screw will still be used on that side once the new adjustment unit has been set.

 

In the case of the Radar Sequence plate, the modification is made to the middle mounting screw location converting the holes into a slot as well.

 

If the user's binding plate does not currently have slots for the front and rear screw mounts, those would also need to be modified into slots for this to work. Stand-off washers may or may not be needed for those front/rear screws.

 

Did I get this right?

 

Questions:

Does it come with a slightly longer mounting bolt to properly seat in the ski insert through the thicker unit & plate?

Does the side w/o the unit require any additional washer or set washer to work given the slot?

 

 

 

[Brewski]

Cool stuff~!

 

[OTF]

@todd You are correct, the plate needs to have slots anywhere that there is a screw in order for the adjustment to work correctly. The screw that locks the clamp down is longer than the standards to ensure good thread engagement. The extra aluminum washer that's needed for the slot opposite the adjusting attachment is included in the hardware.

I will add that when I attached the prototype to my animal plate I attached it over one of the rear slots and skipped the center holes all together. That being said one could attach this over an existing slot, find your setting by making the small adjustments and then only drill/slot a small portion of the existing screw holes in the center of the plate giving you the clearance you would need to fasten the center of the binding down and have some adjustment left. In the end I ended up machining slots out of all of my center holes.

[MattP]

It's cool. It works. Buy lots. @OTF beat me to it but I support him!

[Wish]

@OTF way to go man!!. That thing is cool.!!. Not gonna work with my binding plate ;-) but still way cool. Oh wait, actually it might. just need longer screws. A lot longer.

[OTF]

@wish let me know how tall that riser plate of yours in and I'll send the right hardware along with it.

[JohnCox]

That looks very interesting...

 

Perhaps you could partner up with binding manufacturers and have that incorporated in to new bindings (not that I'm ever going to buy any new bindings...)

[Horton]

@ob seriously.... please

[Mrs_MS]

Way to go OTF :)

You worked hard on this with a lot of thought.

 

[KcSwerver]

@OTF could you explain the need for a washer on the opposite side of the attachment? I'm trying to visualize any extra hardware other than where the thing is. Thanks!

[SkiJay]

Nicely done @OTF. I'll take one.

Would you consider selling me a new Radar Sequence plate with the slots milled, or would you prefer that I ship you a plate for milling?

[Zman]

@SkiJay With a Radar sequence plate you can already make fore and aft adjustments in 1/8 inch increments. You see value in finer increments than that?

I could see using this item for standard boot plates that only adjust in 3/16 or 1/4 inch increments. But, I would have thought 1/8 inch adjustments would be plenty fine enough for most skiers. IMHO

[ToddL]

@Zman - my guess is that when a skier is told by several people that the optimal binding placement is 29 1/2" and his or her factory binding plate forces the skier to chose between 29 7/16" or 29 5/8", the skier might be wondering "what if I could get perfectly on 29 1/2..." I could totally see some skiers go there.

[Zman]

@ToddL Totally agree. But, with Radar Sequence, if I could get either 29-7/16" or 29-9/16" I am pretty sure I am good to go....one of those will work just fine.

That said, I do like the design of this little gadget. Looks like some creativity in taking a micro adjustment feature found in other uses and making it work for water ski boots also.

[ToddL]

I agree. I'm not sure that my COM (weight) over my ski is consistent enough to make 1/4 inch adjustments really matter! LOL! Still, I guess there is an average body position for every skier and you want that to work with your boot settings. Skiers who are very quiet and consistent will likely be able to feel the difference of those finer adjustment options. So, I think this is an excellent solution.

 

Great product and great idea.

[bishop8950]

Great idea. Simple and effective.

 

@zman I want 1/16" movements. Not everyone will. I do. My bindings plates are all slotted so I can move as little as you can imagine. If the screws lossen the plate can move, which is where the benefits of the @OTF rig are clear.

[Zman]

@bishop8950 I missed the added benefit of more securely locking down your plate when not using the center holes. I used to do the same with my Animals, leave out the center screws so I could adjust the plate as little as I wanted. I see now how this gadget will keep the plate from moving when not using the center holes (or when slotting the center holes as @OTF suggested).

[Horton]

@ToddL maybe 1/16th is not something you would feel but I am sure 1/4 is huge for anyone rounding balls.

[SkiJay]

@Zman I'm on a Nano One XT which has the front inserts for the back binding too wide to work with the Sequence's rear set of center holes. I can only use the forward-center holes and have been back and forth between the only holes I can use enough that splitting the difference is appealing.

 

I agree that 1/8 is as fine as I would ever likely need, but won't be surprised if 1/16 ends up being used since it's there. I've skied over 1,100 sets in the past three years, over 400 this year, and find myself noticing the tiniest of changes lately.

[ToddL]

@Horton - yep.

[Zman]

@SkiJay Gotcha. This gadget is just what you need for that. On another topic....I am jealous you are on the Nano One XT. I'm still on a 9800SL.

[OTF]

@KcSwerver you will need to make a slot out of the set of holes on the opposite side of the plate from the adjuster as well. The reason this needs to be done is so that when adjustments are made the screw opposite the adjuster has clearance to be able to clamp. Without doing this it would end up not lining up due to the material in between the current set of holes being in the way and covering the threaded insert. We include one of the aluminum recessed slot washers to use in the new slot. You shouldn't need anything outside of what we send along to mount this to your set up.

[Garn]

Seventy Five bucks seems like a LOT for such a small thing.

[kstateskier]

Don't take my question the wrong way as I fully support innovations like this in the ski industry, however if I slot out my middle holes on my animal plates why would I need this $75 gadget as I'd have any and all adjustability forwards and backwards with the placement of my front binding?

 

Or will slots all around allow the binding to move (or slide forward or backwards) over time without a hard hole mount?

[kstateskier]

In addition $75 seems like ALOT for a small piece of milled plastic... I'm sure there's been alot of R&D and testing costs that need to be recouped, but $75 each? wow!

[Chef23]

@kstateskier my understanding is that it reduces the risk of the plate sliding. If you only have slots in the middle instead of holes you run the risk of the binding moving around. I believe this is supposed to prevent that. In addition it is milled aluminum not plastic. Given the equipment, time, material costs, R&D and low volume I can see where the cost is.

 

@OTF or @Horton could probably comment better on it.

[MattP]

@kstateskier it is anodized aluminum I beleive.

[The_MS]

@kstate your binding will move if you are not set in a slot. The cost of skiing never ends, you just have to decide what is needed and what is nice. Handle guards, ventral wings, slot fins, carbon fins, slot calipers, fitness programs, firkin fins, portable fin tune station, EZ-fin tool, Custom Synthetic Leather Noose Eliminator, Liquid Cut angle gauges and dont forget the Automatic testicular caliper refinement displacement tool.

[Horton]

@Chef23

you got it right

[kstateskier]

fair enough... I like that its aluminum, because the photo makes it look like plastic.

[SkiJay]

I can make just about anything, so I look at this and think, "could I do better in my garage?" And my answer on this one is a clear,"I'd rather pay the $75, so fair price."

[colo_skier]

@MS and I thought that the Automatic testicular caliper refinement displacement tool was a bottle opener. Not a lot of expense there.

[The_MS]

@Colo_skier It can do both, that is the beauty of it.

[OTF]

@ms multi purpose tools are the best

[thager]

@OTF I am glad you are multi purpose!!

[MattP]

@rico it was given to every ski manufacture freely. None of them wanted to deal with it.

[Horton]

@MattP

Are you speaking for the inventor?

:-(

[MattP]

@Horton yes. I was there when the inventor showed the product to 3 or 4 of them. I think their reaction was cool, but don't want to deal with it.

[Horton]

@Mattp that could be true

[MAD11]

@OTF. Thanks for this. Super Chicken has been skiing with it for several weeks and it has totally eliminated our reflex plate movement issues. Being able to make fine adjustments quick and easy is great. It seems that every single reflex plate we have I had to slot the holes to get it where we need to be and then the plates would move. Problem solved and now I also don't have to tighten the screws so much to try and get it to stay that I risk damaging the inserts. Worth the money. Much cheaper than then plane tickets I wasted last season when her boot moved at an event and they didn't know it. I can't be at every event so this will help.

@toddl. If you want one, order it and come down. I will mount it for you. Takes about 10 min. I have a few tools we can use.

[davemac]

@MAD11 If possible...I'd be curious to see a picture of one of these mounted on a single Reflex plate (G10)....

[Inboardfix]

 

This is a great idea for those skiers who use the single plate per boot.

HO used a similar concept on their HO76 adjustable binder. It was a slotted plate mounted to the boot plate which allowed for easy movement of the front toe. It didn't allow for 1/16" adjustments but was pretty much the same idea.

 

Not sure if O'brien was one of the companies this was presented to or not. If it was I would guess they weren't terribly interested because their new binding system does this (allows small incremental changes in boot placement) already.

 

 

[MAD11]

@davemac. Here is a pic. I still need to cut off the bolt. The newer ones sent out I believe come with a short bolt. http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv313/marcaustin11/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg

[davemac]

@MAD11, cool, thanks. So to confirm... you mounted the "micro-adjust" gizmo at the "mid point" insert fastening slot, and presumably "dremeled" or milled out the fixed screw holes near the heel...thus allowing plate to "slide"... before fastening the micro-adjust down??

Any issues or tips w/ dremeling/milling the carbon plate?

Thanks, again.

[MAD11]

@davemac. That's exactly what I had to do. The rear holes I had already ground out using a small carbide bit in my 1/8" die grinder. On the newer Reflex plates these holes are square and you just remove the material between the slots. I only take out the necessary ones to get the measurement range I want so I don't remove material that I don't need too on the G10 plate. On an Aluminum plate I would go ahead and remove them all while I was working on it. On a single radar sequence plate that's what we did.