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Anti Freeze for winterizing


makeall6
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Over the years I have always purchased the high dollar stuff at my local marine store. Is this necessary? I store my 2004 SN in an unheated garage in Northern Ohio.Never gets that cold. Someone told me the good stuff lubes the impeller. Can't I buy just the cheapo stuff at Home Depot? Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

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I have been using the -50 pink stuff from Walmart, Home Depot, Menards, etc since 1980 or so in a 1972 Hydrodyne IO, a 1993 Hydrodyne Comp inboard and now a 2002 SN 196. I have had no problems in Minnesota where it gets very cold for long periods of time.
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My NWO garage is attached and unheated, and i always leave a plastic water bottle in the garage to see if it freezes and not once in the last 13 years has it frozen over. Could be the refrigerator motor running a little during the night, or heat from the house leaking in, but I wondered if I even need to use AF at all. I used to use the green auto stuff, but went to the RV Eco pink stuff for sake of the environment.
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Point 1:

If you are reusing the rubber impellor EVERY year - then pull it out for the winter and when you reinstall it pack it with plain glycerin (buy the cheap stuff at walgreens).

 

Point 2: you should be draining the vast majority of the water prior to any application of antifreeze

 

Point 3: The main reason I add pink RV antifreeze is to catch water that might sit in low spots in the manifolds, and keep the surfaces of the water passages covered so they don't corrode.

 

So based on those - 1, why would the impellor need to be lubricated, 2. cheap stuff is more than plenty, 3 - many people don't add antifreeze and just drain water. Anything above that is a plus.

 

Finally, I always start the boat on a hose to make sure it starts at the lake - this also gets the pink out so the DNR won't harsh you.

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My buddy has a '87 MC in great shape which has been in a machine shed every winter of it's life. He warms it up and slurps through the intake about 4 gallons of a green antifreeze/water mix and has never had issue. 26 yrs experience can't be all bad. We did same to my Nautique yesterday and packed her away for the winter nap.
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@BraceMaker-I winterized my boat yesterday and I was wondering if I could just briefly run the boat on the trailer until the water was out of the engine in stead of draining the block. Which is a lot like your suggestion with regard to clearing out the AF before putting the boat in the water Edit-(reread your post and it says the marina used a fake a lake). Obviously, you could overheat your engine or tear the impeller apart if you weren't careful. But for a short period of time it should be ok, right?
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Dont do it! A dry impeller can fry in seconds. Chunks can get into your lines and be a mess.

Not saying it will 100% of time, but why risk it?

 

Super easy method is to get a 3 or 4 foot piece of rubber hose with a coupler from Auto store, undo pickup line from hull, stick coupler and extension on the pickup line, and put it in a 5 gallon bucket with a garden hose filling it. For winter, I run until at full temp, shut off engine, and fill bucket half with water and half with AF, or,whatever % you want. Then turn engine back on and suck it through, even run shower if you have one. Shut off when bucket is empty. Done.

 

The trick was on a carb engine to fog carb as bucket was emptying and dump in the fog to almost stall engine as bucket was empty.

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I'm so OCD about not running an impellor dry that I remove it during winterization - then I install it with glycerin so that the impellor is lubricated during that brief point in time when there isn't water in there.

 

@skinut - the one big take away is that the impellor won't "push" air through the engine. Water is pushed through the engine by more liquid. Once the water is out of the pump it will run dry and burn up - it won't self winterize. Unfortunately, a diaphragm type pump would, but it wouldn't move the volume of water, nor would it move it as smoothly.

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@Makeall6, Technically, I think you are supposed to take the spark plugs out, squirt some fogging spray in there and then take a big socket with a breaker bar on the front main crank and turn the engine over to lubricate the cylinder walls... I have done this once or twice on my GT40, but sitting in my fairly temperate garage, thought it was a waste of time. Maybe some real hardcore mechanics can add to this theory.
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I use the RV Antifreeze for winter storage. Always remove the impeller. I store mine in a jar full of antifreeze for the winter. I have only run my boat off the hose once. I don't recommend it. I had an impeller wear out on me prematurely. I usually get 2-3 seasons out of one. When I winterize I let it idle for 10 minutes. I take it to the launch ramp and let it idle while on the trailer. Then drain the block of water, then fill with RV antifreeze.
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the theory on fogging is that no matter where the engine stops, some of the cylinders will be exposed to ambient air. This is because either the intake valve or exhaust valve will be open on some of the cylinders. The cylinder walls are not rustproof. In normal operation, enough oil is left on the cylinder walls to avoid corrosion. But, if the engine sits for an extended period of time, air is pumped, albeit ever so gently, in and out of the "open" cylinders as the engine and atmosphere cool and warm at different rates. If the air is humid, as for example if it was coming in through a waterbath muffler, that humid air could cause the cylinder walls to corrode. So. You are supposed to do the squirt-crank thing to coat the cylinder walls with oil. But, don't get over zealous and fill the cylinder with oil, because when you start in in the spring you'll bend a rod. Just a spritz and a few revolutions of the crankshaft with the big socket wrench.
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The GT40 is a dry intake so on that motor fogging oil should be sprayed through each sparkplug hole and the engine rotated manually a few times with the plugs out. It's easy to do and a no-brainer as I don't want my cylinder bores just sitting open to condensation, etc. for 7 months. Helps avoid pitting and whatnot. Also gives you a look at your spark plugs every season.

 

I use the spray can version (Stabil makes a spray fogging oil) with the straw and spray in as circular of a motion as possible to coat the cylinder walls 360* around if that makes any sense.

 

@Skinut, running the boat does not drain the block. Only draining the block drains the block.

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Gator1 pretty well covered it, but basically fogging oil is to lubricate the machined surfaces of the engine airflow path internals so they do not corrode. Basically this includes the cylinder walls (machine honed surfaces) and the valve seats. The spraying of fogging oil through the spark plug holes lubes the cylinder bores (remember to hold on to the little red stray, you don't want it to shoot in to the cylinder) and fogging from the intake does lube the intake tract and valve seats (it leaves a little oil on the top surface of the valve). Over time, hydraulic lifters will collapse and after a time all the valves will be closed but solid lifters will not so the open valves will stay open (I recommend slacking all the rockers on a solid lifter cam, that will extend the valve spring life). I also like to rotate the engine over sporadically (monthly) to avoid the rings sticking or resting in one place for an extended period of time.

 

With temperature swings, particularly a warming of cold air, you bring all the humidity out of the air in the form of water droplets, notice what happens if you open the engine box on a warm day after a cold spell, the engine turns damp. Thus, the importance of fogging.

 

I always have antifreeze in a stored marine engine, it not only displaces any pure water in the low spots, but also keeps any air induced corrosion at bay. Antifreeze is a great lubricant and rust inhibitor for those non painted cast surfaces.

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Pink RV anitifreeze sucked from a bucket straight from the main water intake, which I disconnect from the trans cooler. Since I have an older boat with carb, do like AB describes and fog engine at same time. Pull each plug and spray a little fogging oil into each cyclinder and crank engine. I would never dream of using green antifreeze to winterize a boat. That stuff is way too toxic, whereas the pink stuff is pretty inert. Same reason I would never use dish soap as binding lube, need to protect our lakes!

 

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For engine fogging, I use PB Blaster. It creeps into rusted bolt threads to loosen nuts, so it should creep and coat the cylinder walls fairly well. I've used it for over 15 years on several boats and it seems to do the job - although I've never pulled a head, yet.
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@gator1, @DW ........thinking about the fogging comments. Is fogging through the air intake (with the arrestor taken off) adequate to get the cylinders coated? ....or do I really need to be pulling the plugs? (I have a 325 Hp Indmar Monsoon (throttle body (?) EFI) if that makes a difference.)

 

Thanks.

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Yes, if done correctly. You need to ensure that the fogging oil does get to all the cylinders. The best method is probably with the engine running, shooting a steady stream in to the intake and seeing some white smoke from the tail pipes will ensure enough. With that said, I still always pull each plug and spray directly in to the cylinders for the extended storage.
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For fogging I do what @DW said above spraying fogging oil into the intake until smoke comes out the tail pipes. I have a 2002 Malibu Response and when it was new they said to just drain the block in the winter. I have been doing that for 12 years now (just took the boat out over the weekend) and I store it outdoors under a special frame and tarp in Mass and have never had a problem in the spring.
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