Eastern Region M3: 13+ skiers

[Than_Bogan]

It's been a while since I skied in a division with that many skiers at Regionals. I think it's very cool that we're finding new (or perhaps returning?) competitors at the age of 35-45. At least here in the northeast, rumors of the sport's demise seem unfounded.

 

Good luck to all, and if anybody is at Eastern Regionals and hasn't met me yet, please introduce yourself! I'm the lanky guy usually wearing a "stylish" Nationals 2000 blue floppy hat.

[ForrestGump]

M4 and M5 were huge at the SCR regionals. There were 30-40 skiers in each division.

[PatM]

@Than_Bogan I thought there were that many last year. No? Anyway good luck. Lets see a top 3 finish. I was going to go to watch, but my wife convinced me that it would just kill me do watch and not be able to ski.

[Than_Bogan]

@Pat M Maybe! Everyone knows MIT grads can't count. But I don't recall it being more than 11 in a while, and usually around when you go into the next division (which of course you just did), it starts gettin' real quiet in my division.

 

Hm, I think watching might be better. I found when I was out that I really enjoyed feeling a part of it.

 

Thanks! Top 3 is possible. I'm quite capable of a deep -38 on Friday, which likely would do it.

 

Bottom 3 is also possible... :)

[Kelvin]

@shane your SCR numbers are overstated. There were 26 skiers in M5 and 23 in M4. These numbers are down from prior years. There have been as many as 40 skiers in M3 and M4 in the past 10 years.

[Than_Bogan]

@Kelvin Perhaps a minor note, but I caution against comparing like divisions. My division has always been smaller than the two divisions older than I am. This makes it look like Men 3 is "currently" shrinking, but for the most part that all happened 25+ years ago when not very many teenagers in my age category got into it. Our priority to expand the sport is new skiers, most of whom are currently a lot younger than I am!

[Kelvin]

@Than_Bogan I agree. 10 years ago, M3 and M4 were the big divisions, now those skiers are M4 and M5, but overall, there are fewer of these same skiers showing up at Regionals.

[MrJones]

My first year of M3 was '05 at Tri Lakes. About 60-65 skiers as I remember. Next year was in the 40's. Noticed about 13 this year. Not good.

 

At least we had about 5 or 6 M2 skiers this year. I believe last year we had 1.

[Jody_Seal]

in 1994 "Back in the day" 110 men 3 slalom skiers and near that many men 4 at Travers southern Regional's. That was a historical event in it self!

 

@OB Just looked at your post about horrible scores at our regionals, did a little research with the men 3 through 5 and some random other divisions and the scores seem to be throughout the tournament about 4 bouy's lower then the rankings scores utilized for seeding.

Some divisions had lower buoy counts as a whole others not so low. Men 5 the lowest with the men 3 next.

Could some of this be due to the fact that no one had access to any familiarization/practice?

also could the fact that a large number of ranking scores come from Class C tournaments have an effect?

As a whole jump scores were down also as were trick scores VS seeding list scores!

 

 

[Chef23]

There are 17 M4 skiers registered for the eastern regionals right now. Not a bad turnout.

[liquid d]

Baby boomers aging out

[A_B]

Maybe this God awful weather kept a lot of folks off the water and they did not want to spend the dollars for a sub-par score. Holding them earlier isn't helping either, IMO...

[rodb]

first regionals in 3or 4 years. heading to new York Friday to ski in mens 4

 

[Jody_Seal]

@OB The class C thought was because as I randomly looked through these score comparison's I noticed that a lot of the higher seeding scores were performed under class C conditions and the REL scores were more in line with the performances attained at the regional championships. This was not alway's the case for all the skiers however was much more the trend then not.

You hit the bull's eye with the boat judge comment! :)

[LeonL]

I'll speak for myself about SR scores. I also observed that as a whole slalom scores were not as good as one would expect. I was down about three buoys from my average and down 2.5 from the two record tournaments that I skied in. I can't give an answer because the conditions were great, water, wind everything when our group skied. I can't speak for other places, but the C tournaments that we hold are run in compliance with all applicable rules. We never see unusually high scores, just very near any given skiers average. I suppose that there are "ranking mills", but to surmise that scores are inflated due to achieving them at a class "C" kinda puts all LOC's that host them in a unfairly bad light. Not wanting to be harsh or argumentative, I just don't feel that such things happen very often. Take a look at the winner of M3. Does his scores at class C appear much higher than his scores at R's? I do recognize that those who host R's seem to look down on those of us who host C's though.

[Chef23]

@rodb I am in your division as well although if I figured out who you are correctly I am not much of a threat to you. I am coordinating practice at regionals so I will be around all week starting this afternoon. I will try to say hello to you at some point.

[Jody_Seal]

@LeonL Ok! lets use your scores for example, You have 7 scores under REL conditions that average 86.25 buoys, then take your top 7 Class C scores your average is 88 buoy's your score at regional's were 86.5 buoy's! so you actually did better over your Class REL seeding scores.

Point being that a large percentage of skiers (at least in the southern region as these are the only skiers that I have sampled) tendency to ski a few buoy's less in REL tournaments then that of the Class-C. Again seems to be a trend. Too me it makes sense as in Class -C their are no end course cameras, gate cameras, no homolagated courses and the level of judges are reg or better.

Also nobody that I know of looks down on Class-C tournaments in fact for me I have a hell of a lot more fun at the C's then at the Record tournaments with far less work!

[MrJones]

Go ahead and open up OB. How do you really feel about it...

[webbdawg99]

I think performances tend to be worse at the class R type events bc there is usually a little more pressure to perform..... Especially if its a regionals or nationals. Other than the added pressure, from a skiers perspective, I have experienced no difference between the class c events and other events I have attended. If you believe that class c's yield better results bc of lack of regulations, I think you'd be dead wrong. I'd actually prefer to start going to more "high profile" tournaments simply for better boat drivers. I've never seen an inexperienced driver ever help someone.....only hurt them.

[Marco]

I think the main reason for better scores in a class C, besides the difference in pressure intensity, is that in most C tourneys, you have 2 or 3 rounds to bust one out. It gives you a chance to understand a new site, learn the water, etc. Way different than a one and done tournament.

[Jody_Seal]

Dang! George That's crazy talk! might as well bite he hand that feeds Ya! Are you a driver or judge?? of any rating?? Did not think so!

 

Cheers!

[rodb]

chef23 I will be there Friday afternoon around 4. put me on the practice list.

 

[Jody_Seal]

Yes! All skiers bow down to the senior official! we are high and mighty!!! Skiers are only dopes on ropes!! And we are smarter! All hail the senior official!!!

I Digress!!! Toot! Toot!

[LeonL]

@OB, I'm a senior driver and have the opportunity a couple of times a year to drive at an REL. The CD and LOC keep having me back so I guess there aren't too many complaints. At the same time there is a guy at our lake who is an assistant driver, and he's really good,perhaps better than me. I'm also a senior judge and make it my priority to know the rules, treat all skiers with respect, and try to make everything even and fair. Bottom line, the way I want to be treated. I know that there are judges that really ought to hang up their clipboard though, but they're not all seniors. While I'm driving I ALWAYS check the rope before every pass and I expect the boat judge to remind me to make speed changes as applicable. It's a two person job running a tow boat and you've got to help each other. If you don't , you get some of the problems you mentioned.

[MrJones]

There are skiers who should become officials.

There are officials who should retire.

It is an imperfect world.

[MattP]

I know plenty of regulars and assistants I would have rather drive me than some old crusty seniors I know. Sometimes it happens. I also know seniors I would rather drive me than some regulars and assistants. It goes both ways.

 

Should tower judges be required to take eye exams?? Possibly. Ha more regulation!! Never goin to happen I know.

[Than_Bogan]

Hm, I don't think there are any drivers or boat judges who hate me. Perhaps someone here can correct my misimpression!?

[LeonL]

@OB, you bring up a subject I should have addressed--accepting input. Not to dismiss 15 off skiers, but I always make a point to try to talk to any 35 off and shorter skier that I have the privilege (yes privilege) of driving for. I ask if they have suggestions, comments or criticisms. That's the only way to get better. Oh, I also ask during their set if its feeling OK. Throttle at the start, speed around island, etc. some of these comments may sound like horn tooting, but to the contrary, I accept that I'm far from perfect and always seeking to improve. As it turns out a lot of comments in this thread should be on the one asking "Are you a rated official"

[Than_Bogan]

@OB Well, if somebody's gotta do it, then I pick you :).

[Than_Bogan]

@LeonL Maybe that makes sense out of something that has seemed a little weird to me: I feel like recently (roughly the last 3 seasons) after almost every ride, especially at sites I don't ski quite as regularly, the driver is asking me all sorts of questions about the quality of his/her pull. In most cases, this has been very advanced drivers.

 

I was thinking this was a little bizarre. I don't pay much attention to the driving -- I am quite capable of ruining my pass all by myself, thanks! So I'm always kind of like "seemed great to me." Now you're almost making me feel bad that I don't have anything constructive to say!

 

The funniest case of this was Ken Autore after he drove me for what is still my only successful tournament -38 ever. He has all these questions about what he was doing, and I can barely put together a sentence that is anything other than "Dude, I just ran freakin 38." Then he was all worried about the gate at -39 because I "only" got 1. Well, I had never seen the 2 ball in my life, including in practice, so I'm guessing that wasn't his fault...

[LeonL]

@Than_Bogan, as far as not having anything constructive to say, sometimes the best complement a driver can get from a skier is "I didn't notice you"

[GOODESkier]

My wife drives me in 90% of my practice. I say exactly the right thing. "Ready when you are dear", "That was awesome dear", "Your the best driver ever and I hardly noticed our 2 year old screaming and hitting you during my 2 balls @ 38' OFF", "Can we do this again tomorrow?", "It's your turn dear".................

 

I agree, if I don't notice the boat, it was just fine!

[Than_Bogan]

M.O.P. whoops. Took a practice set later and still felt kinda awful. Not my day. Next time.

[Zman]

@webbdawg I'm with you on one point, not sure on another. You said you wanna seek out more ELR's or "high profile" tournaments just for the better boat drivers. Though I think many C's have great drivers, the few tourny's I have done over the last 6 years or so I've competed, definitely my scores are a lil higher at ELR over C's. I'm confident that solid, consistent drivers is a factor. The ELR's are often at primo ski sites as well such as Ski Ranch and Cedar Ridge.

Maybe some folks don't ski as well at R's due to added pressure, but I don't think most feel added pressure at these. The two locations I just referred to are always so much fun, pressure for me has def not been an added factor (though hangovers were an added challenge I was able to overcome).

[webbdawg99]

@Zman I ski in Georgia and there are very few REL tournaments nearby. Little Mountain in NC is probably the closest and has been full every time I've tried to enter. The only other times I've skied in an REL is at Regionals and Nationals....and there is definitely added pressure to perform. As mentioned earlier by someone else, you also only get one shot in these tournaments. Most of the C's are 2 or 3 rounds.

 

I've found it quite amazing how different lakes ski. It usually takes me a round to figure out how to ski a certain site. For example, Okeeheelee water skis WAY different than Atlanta water. If I had 2 or 3 rounds though, I'd probably end up with better scores.

[Dusty]

I guess I am missing something. Been a senior driver and judge for a few years now. Haven't been getting a free room. Buy/make my own lunches. Pretty sure I'm not getting paid. No free entries unless a Chief official. Not sure if anyone even knows what my ratings are. Mostly, I find that I get to work more than many others. Only complaint I might have is that "some" skiers (deliberately?)eschew any ratings, and sit on the beach all day unless skiing. Even though at a Class C you don't need a rating to dock start or announce or perform rope monkey duties.

Since most officials are voluntary, where are these Senior officals swaggering around? Haven't seen it yet.

[A_B]

It has been a while since I was on the tournament trail, but I definetley ran into what OB describes. In particular, when there was no speed control, there was a SR Driver that was horrible, and everyone knew it. When they are volunteering, and a hold a Regional or State representative position, it makes it difficult to get them out of the picture, unless someone else fills the void.

 

I had heard from one Senior that they "liked to mow through the 36 mph guys to get to the 34 mph guys". Being a 36 mph guy, and listening to times called in on the radio, it was obvious to me that they drove the 36 classes on the hot end of the range and 34 was on the other end. At one tournament behind the above Senior, my opening pass at 15 off was 37 mph. Of course I got a re-ride, but my confidence was tested after I scrambled to get down to 5 ball on my opener, and skied a pass less than normal. Later with speed control, this guy seemed to want to take off before the rope was secured.

 

I don't see where toleramces should be a problem now with ZO, but I think there still can be a sense of hurry up ad get through with it.

 

I am with OB in that when I hosted tournaments at my lake, I didn't ski all that well, as I was running around making sure my "guests" had an enjoyable event. The tournament wasn't for me.

 

Looking at various State scores posted, there really seems to be a drop off of participation and scores.

 

Could everyone have grown fat and out of shape like me?

[Zman]

@webbdawg No doubt the "1 rounders" do add pressure. I'm with you there. I was just referring to the other mid-season REL tourny's that are also 2 and 3 rounders. Takes a lil pressure off when you have 3 shots (unless it is round 3 and the first 2 were not good, lol).

Hey - I think we ski together a cpl times when I got to ski Wed night ski league up on L Acworth back in 2008. In south GA now.

[Chef23]

A shout out to @rodb who showed up to his first Regionals in years and ran a sweet 4@38 off in gale force winds for the win in Mens 4 in the Eastern Region. Great skiing on a tough day. My gamble on a 32 tail wind to set up 35 head wind didn't work out so well as I couldn't handle the slack coming out of 4 ball and crashed at the wakes after 5 ball.

[webbdawg99]

@Zman Yep....I've skied at Acworth a time or two!