AM's RTP Foot Movement

[Gloersen]

cool video from AM's collection.

 

[BraceMaker]

Definate heel lift. What myth is being referenced?

 

[Gloersen]

Presumably the referenced myth pertains to the magnitude of heel lift; there is some, perhaps not as much as perceived by those adhering to the "myth".

 

It'd be awesome to see that pov for his 38 through 41off passes.

[MattP]

I'm not sure there is a myth associated with rear heel lift.

[mwetskier]

Ive heard some guys say they like to be able to move there foot around on the back of the ski. prolly why there not andy maple lol

[Razorskier1]

I think all of us RTP guys move our heel around both up and down and in some cases side to side. Not sure it is conscious on my part. I always start with a flat footed stance before I pull out for the gate. I couldn't really say what happens after that. My whole reason for RTP isn't what it does while I'm skiing. It is because it makes it easy to get up with one foot in over and over and over again through long practice sets.

[ForrestGump]

Maybe I missed something. But where is there a myth here?

 

Interesting thing is that AM moves his heel towards his offside, which is something I've felt mysel f doing since going to the RTP.

[6balls]

Two reasons RTP for me...I lift heel in the pre-turn area for lack of a better term...this would be not be possible in a double binding. I also agree w/my bro much easier on my back out of the hole.

[Gloersen]

Keep in mind the title of that video, “RTP Myths”, is that of whom edited & uploaded the video, presumably at AM’s direction. So I suspect AM has been approached many times regarding his use of a RTP and the vid was posted to demonstrate his mechanics. The link was just taken from AM's collection & embedded into Horton’s blog.

 

The “myth”, if it exists, as I understand is that some advocate the use of a RTP to facilitate “heel lift” & even perhaps a side-to-side rudder effect to an advantage that cannot be provided by a full wrap or double binding setup.

 

Until watching that video I would have assumed AM’s rear foot to have much greater movement than what was revealed, i.e., his foot appears pretty darn flat in that RTP. Using a modified Wiley RB, my heel certainly lifts quite a bit more comparatively due to excessive movement on the ski. So if there did exist any “myth” that AM uses any substantial rear foot movement by way of a RTP to any benefit, I suppose I don’t really see it that way; that “myth is busted” in my mind. Nonetheless; seeing great balance is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Wish]

Hard shells with shim under rear heal and pivoted for me . I do get heal lift through out the course in the shell for sure but obviously no lateral movement. I did expect a lot more movement in AMs foot as well. Interesting.

[6balls]

@OB sounds like we lift at the same times. I lift in the glide as well before turn in. Your point is well taken, though I still don't want to get out of the hole regularly w/doubles. My back is my weak link.

[skibug]

You have to take into account these were passes that AM could ski with one foot in. Also, even though percieved as a slight movement side to side; that is really magnified when you are locked into a rear boot. The movement, while small, still has to do with large forces. I belived this action is actually a way, not necessarily conciously, for the skier to relieve the reactionary force experienced from he ski. IMO, for those that are life long RTPers, being locked into the rear boot doesn't allow that same relief.

[Texas6]

@ShaneH: so it appears you made the switch to RTP this past season right? Can you please she'd some light on how that transition went for you coming from doubles? Do you think you will go back?

[ForrestGump]

Ahhh, I didn't see the title of the video.

 

@Texas6 Yes. After I got back from Diablo I switched. Talked to AM and CP about it while I was there. CP mentioned being able to have freedom to left his heel and move it side to side, especially on his offside turn. Plus he mentioned at his shorter passes, the ski rebounds into him better.

 

With the same fin settings from my powershells and Exos, the ski was WAYYYYY too aggressive at the finish of the turn. It would turn in behind the buoy and gain so much angle that I would get pulled up or have a spectacular crash(ask Greathouse about that, he was witness to more than a few lol). Badal had me start lengthening, deepening, and moving fin back until I felt comfortable. Here's what I like about it. When the ski comes off the 2nd wake, it edge changes and moves out from under me far easier. I can feel my knees being able to rebound into me as CP mentioned while my shoulders stay pointed outbound. I have to watch my offside turn, though. If I let my head and shoulders come forward, the heel lifts, the ski snaps around and stops. Originally I wasn't going to stay on it, but Mueller convinced me to stay with the rtp as he saw a lot of things he liked. Now, I won't go back.

[SkiJay]

GREAT video! Thank you Andy!

I got five aha moments out of this revealing video:

 

1) Although Andy does lift and move his heal, it's not a lot.

 

2) I can easily lift my heal this much in my Strata bindings and will never again fret about leaving the safety and support of a perfectly good double boot system in in search of more performance with a RTP.

 

3) Andy's rear foot alignment is "toe-centered with heal-WAY clockwise" proving that the rear binding does NOT have to be rotated precisely at its centre. You can put it anywhere you want to make your ski work.

 

4) Andy's heal lifts during the edge change demonstrating how light he is on the back of his ski during the edge change over the second wake.

 

5) This is a good visual demonstration of how the master moves his weight forward on the ski during the pre-turn on both sides.

[2tracmind]

Great discussion thread. What i felt was significant was 2/3 of AM's heel was to the right of center. If you are a DB skier, pivot your binding.

I discussed the RTP with AM at a camp three years ago. He made two points at that time:

1. He feels uncomfortable with his rear foot completely straight. A pivot plate could deal with this.

2. Andy felt that the tongue or front of the rear double boot restricted the forward shin movement of the rear foot. There have been a few great photos of Nate Smith demonstrating how much his rear leg angles forward in the edge change/preturn.

The best skiers in our small group whom are on DB use a rear that is one size larger to allow for the movement that we RTP'ers are advocates of.

 

My feeling is that if you do not have the above mentioned movement, whether a rtp or loose db with a pivot that you are likely skiing with predominately more weight on the back foot than is ideal and will result in your hips being behind and not stacked.

[Razorskier1]

@ShaneH -- you are absolutely right about the offside. I find that my offside is better and more consistent than my onside. However, if I let myself lift up too much, the front end digs in, the ski pivots and stops, and out you go.