Nautique 200 with 530hp LSA?

[GregHind]

I read about CC using the Supercharged LSA 550HP engine in the G25. This engine weighs only 467lb and is zero off compatible.

 

What does the stock ex343 engine weigh?

 

Is there a SC LSA out there in a Nautique 200? Would it be any good for slalom.

 

I like to barefoot, often with a boat full of people, at high speed and with 2 or more barefooters. I'm not that fussy about the barefoot wake - anything pulling 45+mph with 8 people in the boat and 2 or more footers out the back is going to be pretty turbulent.

 

So the LSA would make great speed for barefoot in this boat I would think.

 

I'd also want no compromises compared to the stock engine when using it as a lightly loaded slalom tug. No point having a CC200 if it isn't as good as all the others.

 

How does the 450hp go in this boat? What is it like for slalom with that engine?

 

Thanks

 

Greg

 

 

[A_B]

It probably runs on premium.

The aluminum block in the performance cars like Camaro and Vette would be the base engine. I am really wondering if they would stick with aluminum or use cast. Somewhere I remember reading or hearing that aluminum blocks in marine is not a good corrosion thing. The hull runs awfully flat in the water so wonder how stable it would be?

[ForrestGump]

The 550 is a stupid expensive upgrade on the G25/G23. Retail upgrade price of $24k. The ZR450 is a $10k retail upgrade and is PLENTY in a 200.

[Ed_Johnson]

I have the 409 in mine and it is a Rocket, half the price of the 450..I cannot imagine wanting more HP than that, unless your entering drag races.

[BraceMaker]

I'm convinced that if you want to barefoot the V8 inboards are not that great an idea. Almost better to buy a second boat with an outboard, with the upgrade costs for just the engine, and the increased fuel consumption all the time - why not shop around for an outboard barefoot boat of older vintage and a 200 for the slalom tug?

 

 

[Inboardfix]

Since I'm now showing a little gray I'm not too proud to say my Dad was right: never buy anything the 1st year. In all the years I've been involved in the ski industry I can think of only 2 instances where a 1st year product came out pretty darn close to perfect: '97 Ski Nautique and the Sixam 1.0 (pretty sure it was 2004).

 

Also, I gave @shaneh an "awesome" because he couldn't have described this engine any better, "stupid expensive". Shane, you should send PCM a resume. America is ready for a tell it like it is marketing manager.

 

 

[MAD11]

Usually if you run aluminum heads or block you would want a closed cooling system. I had a 97 Mastercrafft with the Vette motor that was set up with it.

[BraceMaker]

@MAD11 - How often do those aluminum heat exchangers act up? I've never had a closed loop boat.

[eleeski]

My 04MC never had any issues with the heat exchangers. The rats ate the heater hose so I did boil it over once with no ill effects. I checked fluid levels frequently. Some claim that the freshwater cooling gives better fuel economy. Irrelevant for a CC.

Why not get a MC with a hull that needs less HP

[GregHind]

I looked into buying a 2006 Prostar 197 with the biggest engine you could get back then. Reports from barefooters weren't all that kind. I can't remember the exact horsepower rating but the common statement was something like to make sure I got the 400hp engine and I MIGHT be happy with it. I'm pretty sure it was rated at exactly 400hp..?

 

I wouldn't want to be buying an old model hull like the 197 these days. I really liked the look of it when it was new but now I'd be worried that the new model will date it too quickly. It would be nice to get an established hull (not first year) like the CC200. In moving to a boat that compromises barefooting and interior space, I'd not want to compromise the slalom wake too. It would have to be a TXI or 200 if it was an inboard for me I think.

 

I like a boat that can do everything pretty well. I don't want two boats, I ski at home during the week but take the boat away of a weekend. I'm thinking maybe losing a bit of barefoot function and interior space but gaining the best setup for slalom.

 

How quick is the ZR450 in a CC200 and what is it like for slalom compared to say the 343. Is it harder to ski behind, harder pull etc?

 

Ed, what is the top end of your 409?

 

Greg

[Jody_Seal]

I have the ZR450 in my 2012 200 cb. tops out at around 50mph/ keep in mind I had a non cat 409 (2011)that would do that also. I think that the 450 will carry more prop then the 409 and have a higher top end but I am running a 668 ACME and a 13X15.5 OJ, both have extra cup from stock. Many skiers have slalomed well behind this 450 boat, including CP who has had 2 of his best rounds behind it this year. everyone that has skied behind it then informed it was a 450 were surprised with the pull and how well it is to manage the slalom process. I personally prefer the pull of the 6 liters over the 5.7 firmer yet I can get free out at the buoy, 5.7 seem like I have to pull all the way to the ball....just wears me out!

[Ed_Johnson]

409 top speed was 46 with Hydro Gate engaged and 50 with it open.

 

I agree with Jody that the 409 gives a better pull than the 343...It is also quieter, much less vibration in the boat, and gets better gas mileage.

 

Before buying my 2011 CC200, both Jody and Andy Mapple, told me to get the 409, so I did.

[6balls]

I couldn't believe Jody's boat was 450hp...a gentle ZO monster.

[GAJ0004]

The boats with the bigger engine I would think would be more gentle on the pull. Since there is more torque I would assume less RPM swing when the boat counters the skier's pull with additional throttle. Am I making sense or am I talking crazy??

[ForrestGump]

@GregHind Previous Indmars in the Mastercraft were fairly overated. That 400hp 6.0 was really only 375hp. The PCM engines and the new Ilmors have much more power.

[GregHind]

Thanks all. I'd still love to know what a 550hp supercharged LSA would go like :) Would the LSA be lighter than the 343 (better wash too?!) Realistically though $24k is a stupid UPGRADE price on an engine, but it would make a nice boat!

[MAD11]

@bracemaker I have never had one fail, but the 97 Mastercraft is my only experience in a ski boat. I also like the fact that we skied in really cold water when I lived in PA during the fall and spring and the heads and block were not exposed to the really cold water, which occasionally caused a cracked head in the old days. Haven't heard too much about that anymore.

 

My other experience with heat exchangers were in 41"Apache with with a pair of 850's and aluminum heads. We used them to keep the saltwater out of the expensive blocks and heads. Never a problem there either and they took some hard abuse.

 

@shaneh The 6.0 Indmar in Jimbo's Mastercraft jump boat I'm skiing behind until my new Malibu gets here doesn't feel like it's low on power. Plus the loud exhaust makes you feel like your at the racetrack. Although, I think Jimmy went about 20' further in practice after I cleaned the K&N air filter a few weeks ago for the first time. I told him I do it every season on mine, so once for a 2008 was kinda necessary. Thing looked like a furry stuffed animal when I started. She wasn't breathing too good.

 

[DW]

The weight of a cast iron SBC is about 575 #. The weight savings will certainly help in the wake department. I have aluminized a SBC including aluminum exhaust manifolds in my tournament boat retaining an open cooling system with no corrosion problems. The boat is used on a fresh water lake with a muddy bottom and typical midwest weed growth.

 

I would look at the power and torque curves for both engines to determine what you will get, torque values from idle to 3000 rpm will be the key in how well the engine pulls the skier(s) / footer(s) from rest and the top speed will be determined by how much additional power it has at the 50 +/- mph region so it is prop dependent. From my experience on boosting the power level and deciphering the power the CC200 hull needs to pull at skiing speeds, I would think the additional 100 hp over the 450 hp (50 mph from the above post) you should see right around 55-57 mph w/o skier in tow. It is surprising to most how much additional power is needed for a very small bump in top speed, due to very high hull drag.

 

So, it looks like about $4k/mph.

[ForrestGump]

Doesn't really even matter, since the XS550 isn't an orderable option for the 200.

[6balls]

@shaneH, nor will it be, eh? @greghind, what are you running that can pull two footers at 45 mph plus with 8 in the boat?? I will jump out there and say no boat that can do that will be a no compromise inboard slalom tug.

[Jody_Seal]

 

you got the torque thing right !

I can pull two bare footers at 45 mph, maybe three or four! Can only haul 4 persons when the back seat is in. slalom wakes are flatter then any boat on the market today. Oh! and this boat pulled the"unofficial" world single wake jump record (207')

And you know what they say? Light is right but their is no substitute for cubic inches! and this Big block is only 502 cubic inches. Naturally aspirated estimated 600 hp (now)

[A_B]

I love Jody's boat. He has a Buyer waiting in the wings..

 

Why not just go for something like this? Enough hp?

 

 

 

[GAJ0004]

The 409 sounds like it gives you the most for your money.

[Jody_Seal]

I am in Orlando for a Fl federation winter meeting and I decided to stop By the PCM Warehouse. they got in a Levitator SC 6.2, same motor as the PCM but designed for the Air boat industry. 540HP nearly 600 ft pounds of torque. As much as a Big block Chevy.... Cant wait to get one in one of my little flatbottoms or better yet a Hydro!!!

[GAJ0004]

The SN 200 with a 550 engine would be fun to try out..

[GregHind]

@6balls I have a matrix sorrento with 225ho etec outboard. It has stargazer with z box. Imagine a prostar 197 outboard if you are wondering what it looks like.

[GregHind]

@6balls my last post was on my iphone so I couldn't post a picture http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=48944&stc=1&d=1246580319

[Ryno]

@GregHind I also have Stargazer Z-box rigged up to an outboard... Though my hull is an older Flightcraft.

 

All hail the mighty outboard!!!

[Ryno]

[6balls]

@greghind and @ryno, nice boats. I too own an outboard barefoot boat and it's very versatile...but I would not call it a no compromise slalom tug (which is why I have a SN196, too). It's a scream to drive, has tiny wakes for longline/slower speed beginners, and pretty decent slalom wakes shorter, too. Lots of space and storage and able to pull 6 footers when called upon. Have not slalomed behind it in many years.

[Ryno]

@6balls I remember discussing your boat with you at the start of the year. I take it you didn't get round to fitting Stargazer?

The photo above is taken at the lake I have my slalom course - It's only 5 ft deep all over, so you'd run a real risk of loosing the prop if you tried to use an inboard. It's a perfect boat for what I'm after - it actually skis and drives the course better than my folks LXi!

[ForrestGump]

5' is PLENTY deep for an inboard. Our lake is only waist deep in the middle of the summer.

[6balls]

@ryno our swamp is 5-6 feet too where we run the SN196. I didn't do anything speed control on the outboard. I thought about adding it so that it wouldn't hunt so much when I'm pulling wakeboarders/kneeboarders/swivel skiers. Given the slalom goals I have for myself, it wouldn't make sense to train behind it even with speed control. If I need a slalom tug on my home lake would have to replace her w/an inboard. Would be tough to sell her for sentimental reasons after 21 years.

Record amount of gas through her this year mainly pulling my kids and their friends. Good family boat, sharp, unique, fun to drive.

 

[Ryno]

@ShaneH The problem is getting the boat off the trailer in 1 1/2" of water and running the boat into the beach etc. This is not a man made lake, so there are sand bars (shallower sections) etc.

[Ryno]

@6balls Yeah I'm not training for nationals or anything, so beating my PB is all I'm after. It gives me consistent 16.08s times with a small wake, so I can't fault it.

If you're still enjoying and using the old barefooter, it doesn't make any sense to get rid of it. The $10k or so you'd get for it would hardly make a dent in the price of a new Nautique.

[E_T]

just FYI you can get a LSA in a 200... all you have to do is ask

[Horton]

Wish I had pictures of the twin rig hydrodynes my dad had when I was a kid

[bigtallweed]

Has anyone put a 383 or 427 in a Malibu sportster? That work be a fun rocket.

[bigtallweed]

I should read my comment before posting but you get the idea.

[sixball]

 

I still have one or two left 1000+ HP

[GregHind]

@sixball shame it doesn't have the right ECM for Zero Off!

[EricKelley]

Here's my second ski rig. 2x1100hp. Not much good in the course. One pass and you can take out all the boat guides. I ski for miles behind this thing on a Maja Long Board. Would like to see what the CC200 would be like with the engine. They weigh almost 1000lbs apiece though. The new LS engines hp is very impressive. I think all marine engines should be closed cooled.....

[Jody_Seal]

Eric be care full what you wish for.... GM is about change their engine platform, could be we all will skiing off of cables in the very near future as the cost to power ski boats is about to skyrocket!

[E_T]

@jody_Seal any chance you have a picture of the red nautique ski fly boat

[Jody_Seal]

This is about All I have. If you search the internet maybe Correct Craft fan dot com you might find other photos.

[ntx]

@jody_seal That is one nice ride and ride. Is that the boat they had in Bakersfield in the early 2000'

[E_T]

@jody_seal none of the motor? are you holding out on us?

[thager]

One of the few 2000 N style boats that I liked

[DW]