Who should tweak fins and bindings?

[Skihack]

I set the fin up stock and leave it alone all summer. The problems are with the skier not the ski.

[doonez]

@horton I read your article about taking the wing off your fin until you were at (32off??). I looked at the fin on my a2 and decided to shallow it up a bit (first thing I've ever done to the fin/wing) as a compromise to taking it completely off. I run into 32off at 34 quite often and deep 28off at 36. After the change I was running 22off so easily and smooth (much more speed through the turn) but when I got to 28off I had huge tip rise on my onside and struggled to get much further than ball one. Can this be explained by the change or was it the skier? Thanks

[Horton]

@doonez

First of all at 36 you most likely need the wing a lot sooner than at 34. My anti wing attitude does not go far at 36.

 

As for your on side turn, a wing draws the ski under you as you approach the ball. With more wing you will have more ski in the water (tip down) without having to move your hips forward over your bindings. If you are used to using a wing this might be frustrating but on the other hand if you spend some time skiing this way it will teach you to be more centered on the ski.

 

If your A2 has the thinner fin (red fin?) there is very little drag at the back of the ski so a wing has an even bigger impact.

 

I have softened my stance on wings… My message is: Try to ski without a wing. It might feel better. If you can ski without a wing up to 28 or 32 off it should make you a better skier in the long run.

 

[doonez]

Thanks @horton that explains a lot. Next set I shall be working on that.

[gsm_peter]

Where do I find out:

Factory setting Radar Theory 67" and Senat 67" dbl Vector?

Where can I find out what to measure and how?

 

I do only want to verify settings.

Not change anything unless completely wrong

 

 

[teammalibu]

After working with a young apprentice for a couple of weeks he looked at me with a blank stare and said "Wow there must be a whole lot of thousanths in an inch" All I could say is yes there is!!

[ForrestGump]

@teammalibu THAT is classic! hahahahaha

[Horton]

At least a hundred

[Zman]

@Horton Still early with my course work getting back to skiing. But, still running without the wing and ran a few buoys at 32 (34 mph) tonight first time shortening to that length this spring. 28 is feeling very good. Did not run many 32s last season and it was a short summer for me. So, for 32 to feel pretty good on my first couple passes, and with no wing felt cool. I hope to complete this pass with no wing, then see what happens. Do you think the ski will start skipping out on me if I try 35?

[Horton]

@Zman

As I always say... try it without a wing. If it feels better leave it off. You are far enough along in your skiing that you need to make that judgement.

 

Lack of wing will not make your ski skip out.

[ToddL]

I'll add this... There are two camps: Tweaker people and "never touch it" people. This is the problem... Too many newbies are one of those two.

 

I think the ideal is: Confirm the ski is at stock settings. Measure it a few times a year to confirm that it is STILL at stock settings. Start of each season is a great time for this. After any drop, major bump, etc. which could have jarred the fin. If you put your ski on while standing on the fin on the dock/swim platform, then over time you have moved the fin. Check it once and a while.

 

Oh, and measure a few times before you assess the value to account for user variability in measurement technique...

[Chef23]

I had a discussion with KLP about this and my issue is I don't understand enough how the changes to the fin impact the way the ski performs. Add to that the shortened season we have and I don't want to spend a ton of time screwing around with the fin. I want to get something that works and stick with it.

 

Generally I try to save fin adjustments for when I have someone who knows what they are doing watching me and making suggestions.

[ForrestGump]

I only check and or change my fin after someone has ran me aground around the islands.

[Marco]

I'll tweak as needed during initial set up of the ski. Once I get it dialed in to my liking, I'll leave it there forever. I'll just check it occasionally to be sure it hasn't moved. I don't see the need to tweak every time conditions change. I'd rather that the ski is predictable, and I am the variable that needs to make adjustments for changing conditions.

[gator1]

Given a choice between obsessing over .001" on fin depth as measured on the 3D Xray machine here at work, or watching a video of myself stinking up the course and comparing that to CP crushing it, I'll almost always chose the fin measurement. I'm hell on wheels at measuring stuff. But, once the fin is set close to factory spec, it'd be a lot more effective to watch the vids.

 

I've got four drivers in my various golf bags. They all work just about the same.

 

One of the guys we ski with sent us emails over the winter. He changed his fin settings. Twice.

[east tx skier]

I resemble this remark, but only a little bit. I discovered course level skiing later in life after duffing it about the lake for over twenty years. When I bought a better ski and read about adjustments, I read (1) adjust your boots and (2) adjust your fin. I would start out stock with both and adjust a bit. Typically, we would have video on the first few rides on the stock settings. Now, being a duffer (as previously mentioned), I have developed a few bad habits over the years. One of these habits is being too far back on the ski. As a result, I would move my bindings forward one hole at a time. Invariably, I would end up all the way forward and, as video would indicate, I had a nice water break right under the ball of my front boot.

 

I also tended to break at the waist a bit on my off side. To compensate, I would slightly move the fin forward (increase DFT) by .002". This has always settled the ski in.

 

Yes, these are Band Aids. But tweaking is generally a Band Aid. We all strive for perfect form. But we are human. Even the pros at the highest level cannot exhibit perfect form. It is a sliding scale, to be sure. But I'm an old dog trying to learn one trick.

 

For what it's worth, I'm slowly curing myself. I started out my Radar Vice with the boots forward and a stock fin setting. It feels good so far.

[SkiJay]

Lately, I've been noticing that my ski tuning skills come in most handy for spotting setup problems with other people's ski's. What's interesting is that when I get to measure their fins, 90% of the time I find non-stock settings that I'd expect to cause the kind of problems the ski was demonstrating, and that by setting the fin to factory recommended numbers, the problem usually goes away.

 

Few skiers ever need to become an expert tweaker, but I think ALL serious skiers should be equipped and able to accurately set a fin to factory spec and monitor it over time. At the very least, everyone should have someone they can rely on to get it right.

[The_MS]

I have seen lots of skiers travel to sites and ski like crap for a few sets. Eventually they check on their fin and it is not even close to what they set it at. They set it up and go ski great. Always check your fin to make sure it hasn't changed.