Are mastercraft boats bad at 15off or am I spoiled?

[Waternut]

I've been skiing on my old Dixie direct drive boat with a wake plate and think it's an ok wake. I ski the course typically with a 98 nautique and love it. Over the past couple months, I've skied behind a 2012 and 2013 prostar and they kick my butt. I fully understand that I'm not a great skier but I can usually go from 28 to 34mph in a set. However, if I use good form, I don't notice the nautique or my wake. With both mastercrafts, it didn't matter how good I tried to ski, the wake would kick me off my edge every time and I'd go straight at the next buoy. Had quite a few OTF's as well which I haven't done in a long time!

 

Any recommendations? Do I need to focus more on bending my knees and absorb the wake?

[RichardDoane]

@jfw432 - flexible knees and ankles working together, keeping the ski on edge and out in front, it's the Indian, not the Indian's towboat

[BraceMaker]

There were some threads about this in regards to junior skiers, with the MC being a firmer 15 and 22 wake, fairly fierce debate, think the concensus was the Malibu's have pretty nice wakes these days, but then again, I'll ski behind anything that's on water.

 

You have some water?

[ForrestGump]

15 and 22 off skiers typically ahve the ski more under them, not on edge as much, and almost never drive the ski all the way through the wake. If you drive the ski on edge all the way to the 2nd wake, the MC doesn't effect you.

[Waternut]

@shaneh That's why I asked in the first place because if I really get the ski on edge behind the nautique the wake seems to go away. When I do the same thing on the mastercraft I end up on my face. I plan to try again tomorrow. Maybe its an off day but I will work on getting the ski in front of me and bend my knees.

[thager]

Yes!!

[ForrestGump]

@jfw432 This is where I think a lot of 15 offers make a mistake. I see them trying to roll the ski over and drive the ski through the wake. But instead they push against the ski and create pressure on it. Pressure causes them to overload, get pulled up, bounce, etc. See if you can think about moving the ski through without pressure. It's hard to describe. For a year, every time my coach said "I need you to resist, but with soft knees" I looked at him like he had a third eye. lol

[BRY]

@jfw432 Make sure when you bend your knees you don't drop your butt. It is very comon, nearly universal, for the hips to go back when people try to bend thier knees. Great way to practice is put the handle on the pylon and leverage against the engine box. As you lean away and bend your knees, keep your body in line, Stacked. Shoulders forward, hips back, knees bent is guaranteed OTF. Perhaps instead of knees think of driving hips forward through the second wake. Do it right and you can't go OTF, your postion is too strong.

[crashman]

I'm the same way at -15 with my 01 Nautique which I guess why the guys here told me to buy it. I don't think about its wake at all. Yes if/when I had more ability I'd be able to ski just as well behind other boats but for now I prefer to ski behind my boat.

[6balls]

...all good advice but yes you are spoiled behind the '98 SN. I can yap all I want but I do forget what it's like to ski a wake, and how at a more intermediate level you are dealing with more wake than I am. I skied an over-gassed, over-loaded, towered Lxi this summer in the rain/wind and backed the opener to 28 off due to conditions. I didn't miss the pass, but it was an eye opener to hit a small volkswagen behind the boat with each wake crossing. Couldn't wait to shorten.

It's a right of passage, and I respect your challenge as well as others trying to ski longer lines/slower speeds behind inboards. Take the advice above as truly technique trumps wake, but ski the 196 when available.

[XR6Hurricane]

Interesting advice from Shane - thanks! Will keep that in mind for next season. I'm also a -15 open water skier and struggle with the wakes too at times. One question though just to clarify: are you saying that 15 offers should "not" try to roll the ski over and drive it through the wake? Or are you saying that they "should", but that there is a fine line between driving through the wake on edge and trying to fight the towboat too much? I've always thought that having it on edge through the wakes was the way to go regardless of speed or line length.

 

Edit: 6balls was typing his reply at the same time I was. Good to see someone out there actually admit that inboards are not always the best bet for longer lines and slower speeds :). It's not necessarily the height of the wake. The firmness and more gradual slope compared to an outboard or I/O is what makes it tough.

[ForrestGump]

On edge is the way to go. But most skiers also PUSH on the ski when learning to drive the ski through the wakes. YOu have to learn to roll it over and move it on through without pushing. Resist the boats load. Not push against the boats load. I'll be honest with you, this was REALLY hard for me to figure out.

[eleeski]

I love my MC. But the wake at 15off is pretty challenging. Once you get to 28off my new boat is as nice or better than any Koolaid drinker's Nautique. The Centurion arguably has the best 15off wake but to me everything gets hard at 28off behind that boat. The Malibu never felt good but my best scores in years were behind the new Malibu.

 

Interestingly, my old 04 MC was a terrible slalom boat until I changed the prop. Now it is good at 15off and good at 32off. Boats can be tuned but there may be tradeoffs.

 

I have pulled more PBs at 15off than I can count behind my MCs (college kids are so much fun to ski with!). The wake differences may be real but they can all be dealt with. It is up to you to ski well behind the boat and the boat is certainly not the limiting factor.

 

It's not like you are trying to toe trick behind the incredibly rough Nautique table.

 

Eric

[animal]

it might have something to do with the pull by zero off as well in the newer boats. It makes it feel like a whole different game at times if you are not used to it.

[lb]

I agree with the zero off comment, try C3 at 15 & 22 off it makes a difference.

 

[6balls]

@xr6hurricane, my old '91 centurion falcon barefoot outboard throws a killer kid and beginner wake at slow speeds/longer lines. It also throws a better wake until 28 off at 34 and 36 mph than any current inboard with no spray. The problem as one progresses is speed control, tracking, and wake shorter than 28 off where the outboard gets more firm and the inboard only gets better.

As inboards go...really tough to beat a SN196. Skied one pre-tourney and post-tourney at skiwatch. In tourney skied latest MC and SN. For the lines and speed I ski from 28 to 39 the 196 had the best 28 off wake by a margin. Shorter than that it's marginal and gets more into pull intensity than wake for me. My ski partner says the 22 off wake at 34 mph on the 196 is the best in the biz.

[jipster43]

My '93 MC has an incredible wake at 15'-28' off, but when I'm skiing good I don't notice the wakes on any of the boats at those line lengths.

[rodltg2]

Last tournament I skied was two round slalom . One behind cc and one behind the mc. Skied the exact same both rounds finishing with 2@28. Both wakes felt pretty much the same other than 32mph where I started and the MC was a tad harder. Other than that love them both. And I spend alot of time between 15-28 unfortunately.

[scuppers]

I don't know why everyone is pussyfooting around this topic. I own a 2007 197 MC and the wake is big and bad at 15 & 22 Period! I don't care about tricking or jumping. I'm talking slalom here. The boat is pretty on the water, it's got some cool features but the wake is what it is.

[rodltg2]

I'm telling you, take a set on the Sv One or Infinity at 15 and 22/34mph and you will never again think the MC 197 wake is bad. I skied it for 2 seasons , I tried everything to soften the wake. Weight in front, weight in back , weight on my back,3 different props , little gas, lots of gas, seats in, seats out, heavy driver, skinny driver , even no driver . Nothing helped. The only thing that helped was selling it!

[colo_skier]

Interesting because the Infinity that we have at our lake is the smallest wake period at that speed and rope length. We have Malibu's and MC's of many different years to compare it to.

[Chuck_Dickey]

I'm here to tell you that your MC is not set up right if you are having bad bump issues. I have owned two of them, a 2003 that was bad until I changed the prop and added 80#s in the bow, even my 12 year old 100# daughter loved it. I now have a 2011 Promo boat that is perfect and I pull all ages, speeds and line lengths. Try a few changes before throwing in the towel.

[6balls]

Just a comment; if 100 lbs in the bow is what makes a hull perform best, why wouldn't a manufacturer figure out a way to do this right out of the box. If I'm making boats, I want every owner to have the best wake my hull can produce. Battery placement, prop etc may make a lot of difference...so why not sell 'em that way?

Um, sir, I'm sorry you sprung wads of cash for this BMW, but if you just add some foam to the seat, change the tires, and put a 60 lb dumb bell in the trunk you will have world class performance and be competitive with off the shelf products from Audi and Mercedes. What??

 

[jipster43]

I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the attributes that give the MC a great trick wake create a situation where you do have to tweak a few things to tune your wake for slalom.

[rodltg2]

@colo _skier. I can't speak for the Infinity as I had the Svfara. I assume they were the exact same hull just different interior. The wake on it was the least if the problems. I will say it was a solid boat and would make a great recreational boat. But on a ski lake and a course left much to be desired.

[lb]

yes I agree the 196 has the best wake 15 to 22off 34mph and below but you will be in trouble at a tournament mentally or otherwise when the mastercraft comes to the dock. to say Mastercraft didn't do their home work on weight distribution is arbitrary with the variables involved, crew weight, fuel level, water temp (density), wind/chop. They have built a great family boat that works very well in the course. awesome for trick and jump as well. and if you have driven these boats much you know if they had another 100lbs built into the bow area you will always be dipping the bow under the waves

[Ed_Obermeier]

I always find these "my wake's better than yours" discussions humourous. Kind of a Princess and the Pea thing. I've probably skied and driven every 190 and 197 made since 1989 and with the posible exception of the DeathStar years I can't say I've skied any better or worse behind MC than anything else. I even occasionally ski behind a 2000 DeathStar and it's really a pretty darn good wake (after the owner took it to the shop and had hook added to it...). Hell, I even owned a Supra Legacy for 8 years; the majority of my ski buds hated that boat but I tied my PB behind it, so... It's all a matter of a) what you get used to, and b) if you're stacked and on edge how much does/should the wake matter, especially on about any inboard ski boat built since say 2002 or so? We're splitting atoms here folks.

[colo_skier]

@rodltg2 No problem, I have a 2007 Malibu response LXI and it's wakes at 32 15 off are different as Ed states above compared to the Infinity, the MC's and older Malibu's we have at the lake. It's actually safe to say even the Malibu's of the same year are different. Each one takes a few passes to get used when we change boats. Main reason is because we are not always in the right position and we get used to how our own boat feels timing wise when we are doing it wrong and thus don't get punished as bad. I agree with Ed if your position is stacked the wakes are a non-issue behind any of them. Unfortunately newbies to the course are trying hard to learn the position and we just find that the Infinity wake is the easiest for most at less than 34 and long rope. No point here just an observation of the boats at the lake I ski at.

[Jody_Seal]

Having gone through all the 80's skiing behind everything that was tournament approved including the Magnum skier (all time worse overall slalom wake) the Glastron Ski machine ( all time worse pull), Early Malibu's ( not so good wakes), American skier's (good wakes just need to survive the marbles off the hull), 80-81 Ski Nautiques (Chinese wall), and many other of the worlds best (????) all at 36 mph from 15 off into 32 off hand driving,,,, today's boats are absolutely beautiful compared to the 80's.

We got real spoiled with the 90's boats as the emphasis was on a small wake signature and small bump at 22 off. The problems with those boats were the short short line trough that one had to encounter coming off the wake.

So now we have far more skiers into the shorter line lengths and the manufacturers have addressed the trough issues yet the longer line wakes can be somewhat harder due to the increased size of the current tournament boat.

I know my 200 has a larger then I like bump at 22 off and even something at 28 off however like i stated above these boats are far superior then those that they replaced. Another words you all that ski at longer lines have it easy compared to those of us that skied them back in the day! .........We also walked five miles to school in the snow! uphill both directions!

[Nick Sullivan]

Well said Jodi! My thought exactly.

[BraceMaker]

With hull marbles.... why haven't more people come up with some sort of bolt on product to knock down hull spray on some of the decently waked vintage boats?

[Waternut]

@bracemaker The Bennett or Lenco adjustable wakeplates help knock down the hull or chine spray. They also fine tune the wake for your speed and line length. Best $500 I spent on my boat.

[BraceMaker]

Ya, I don't know about wakeplates/trimtabs, I meant more like above the waterline on the sides, wakes seem fine. But in a head wind it is hard to line up where you want to unless you like getting shot in the eye.

[Waternut]

Yeah the wakeplates help with the spray off the side because they lift the back end of the hull up which yields a shallower spray. It won't get rid of it but lowering it a foot or so could make the difference between it hitting your face or not.

[jefflyman]

Yes wake plates work well and adjustable. I installed a Bennett on my 93 Prostar 205 this past spring. It creates almost a double wake up to 32 off beyond that well we just need a few of you here to test it. Best 600 spent on the boat the slalom wake now rivals the best of the best. Chine spray is way down tracking thru the course is better with the bow more planted and the rear up. I posted the complete install on MC.com.