Crazy brainstorming: MUCH safer turn markers

[eleeski]

@Brent Wasn't there a thread on divorce lake? Your buoys could be a lot more expensive than $7! But that's good thinking.

Eric

[ntx]

@brent The ones like that, that I have seen cost more than $7.00.

[ForrestGump]

I'm with @ntx . Although I typically let someone else splurge for them, then take advantage of that persons generosity at a later date. ;)

[ForrestGump]

FWIW, like Jody, I've had a massive wipeout due to a foam noodle. Ran right over the top of one and it was an instant faceplant when the ski just stopped.

[liquid d]

all of that...or you could just use a bubble bouy...I've seen a bunch of guys rip right over them, into them and through them with very little disruption.

[Than_Bogan]

@ShaneH Any clue if the problem is the fin actually cutting into the noodle or more that the noodle collapses and "grabs" the fin/wing? Designing something to prevent the cutting scenario might be fairly easy. But the "grabbing" issue, if it is an issue, could be a lot harder to address. For that you have to prevent it from collapsing in the first place, and then suddenly a lot of the energy aborption potential is gone.

 

Nothing like a good rack to completely derail intelligent discussion. By the way this is why large-breasted women are stereotyped as dumb -- because men become so phenomenally dumb in their presence. Having seen some impressive racks at MIT (including my wife) , I must conclude those women are extremely smart. It's hard for me to personally confirm that, due to aforementioned issues.

[Than_Bogan]

The next way-outside-the-box idea comes from my cousin:

 

Virtual Reality goggles.

 

Presently this technology is nowhere near good enough to handle the fast movements of the skier's head and body and continue to make it look like the super-imposed things are in the right place at the right scale. But there's no compelling reason that it's impossible, because the human vision system actually updates fairly infrequently compared to how fast a computer can operate.

 

The secret to safety is not to make the buoy safe. That would be impossible. The secret is to realize: There is no buoy. (Apologies to that bald kid in The Matrix.)

 

This idea also comes with a variety of additional advantages:

- Neighbors never complain about unsightly buoys.

- You can "move" the course depending on the wind direction or other factors.

- Every lake in the world now "has" a course on it.

 

The big disadvantage is that spectators can't see the buoys (unless they have their own VR goggles...)

[andjules]

Love it. Forgetting about tournaments, you'd only need to broadcast the video stream to the boat. One display for the spotter/coach (tablet), and of course the mirror has been replaced with a rear camera that overlays the imaginary balls. Add some kind of clever heads-up display for the driver to visualize the boat guides/path (or simply engage auto-pilot).

Would be affordable in 5 years... if we represented a bigger market.

[Than_Bogan]

@andjules I suppose you could have physical boat guides if skier safety is the only reason for this. That gives up some of the more amusing advantage, of course.

[Than_Bogan]

Back on foam: What if it's shaped like a cone instead of a hollow cylinder. That should deflect the ski/fin in nearly every case.

 

Of course, it also introduces a point. But it's a foam point...

[estrom]

Just cut a nerf football in half and float it with the point end up like a duck-butt decoy. That material would not grab a fin if hit, nor would it hurt.

[BraceMaker]

Ready your domes for a mind bender.

 

The PacMan Jellyfish Bouy. Rendered in Paint...

 

http://i50.tinypic.com/2sam620.jpg

 

The system operates thusly.

 

An onshore aircompressor supplies regulated low PSI low volume airflow to the bouys. The airflow trickles in through an unenclosed opening on the bottom of the ball, displacing water until the ball is full, at which point excess air exits the bottom through the open ring.

 

Tethered to the anchors (or arms of the course thusly) the ball has a low exposed surface volume and size, it floats. And if impacted by a ski/skier the air is permited to blow out the bottom of the ring making the ball "act" like it is not firmly inflated.

 

Additionally this could be the makings of a "sinker" course as when uninflated the system would drop towards the bottom.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Wish]

the system would drop to the bottom

 

But what about the boat guides?. They would keep the course still floating. I'm assuming of course that these would not work a guides. Or would they?

 

Very cool concept. Actually, wouldnt mind just the turn balls and exit/entrance gates dropping out of site.

[BraceMaker]

I could see them working as boat guides as well.

 

You'd have to prototype one and determine a few things, such as CFM consumption and PSI requirements to keep the thing up. Regular course you'd need 6 turn and 4 gate balls, for a total of 10.

 

Add pregates and boat guides and you increase the air requirement drastically I would think.

 

And if it would need a "purge" hole somewhere on the bladder to allow it to passively sink? Or you could perhaps just drive around and push down till the air was out enough for them to drop.

 

So long as "some" air stayed in them it would just drop till the arms hit I would think. A static weight on each could bring it down.

 

 

Just something I was thinking about while fiddling.

 

The "on shore" set up would be a 90 degree ball valve, you'd keep your tank charged up, crack open the valve. You could possibly even purge at high PSI to get the whole thing up, or between passes to ensure everything was full up. And let it run at "idle" the rest of the time you were skiing.

[eleeski]

That's essentially the bubble buoy. Except the cylinder is not full of air so when you whack it The air is not lost and the buoy is not left deflated. Often the bubble buoys must be burped or reinflated to get the buoy at the right height. But that's not a serious enough problem to warrant a compressor system - unless you want to sink your course. Then it's great.

 

I hit noodles with my trick ski. Lots of energy and pain. I stay away from them now. Foam, even a Nerf ball which I tried, is a solid thump. I aim for Bubble buoys - but that is completely different - they don't thump hard. But my water filled buoys aren't bad either.

 

Dave Goode is a smart guy. Bubble buoys will not eliminate the risk of hitting a buoy, but you're much more likely to get hurt some other way. Or water fill your buoys and keep both risk and cost low.

 

I'll wait until my climate controlled indoor ski lake is done to install the holographic buoys.

 

Eric

[MikeT]

I ski with Than and I tore my achilles tendon back in July. I cannot say definitetively that I hit the buoy because it happened so fast and I went flying through the air, but I most likely did. I immediately started to think about a safer buoy system. After some discussion our club decided to purchase the bubble buoy system, but we haven't acted on that just yet. I still drive for Than and club members and I keep wondering what material and shape would be the best for the turn buoys.

Some good ideas have been proposed. I wondered about a thin cylinder shape, something small enough that you wouldn't likely be able to ski over it. A cylinder shape like the foam boat gates but with a round top. With that in mind we are now talking about something like the noodle. It seems like a small cyclinder shape with a better material could possibly be deflected in such a way that a ski hitting it would be less likely to run directly over it. We have to think about what it would feel like if a part of the body hits it directly however. I'm not engineer so I'd like to hear from those of you that are. Could a round Octogonal shape improve the deflection capability. Could this make it more likely that the buoy would turn away if the ski hits it. What other shapes could work? .

 

The Nerf Football shape may have some possibilities.

 

I have no experience with bubble buoys. They seem like they would do the trick. What is the concensus about whether or not they are safer and by how much.

[eleeski]

I meant to say I have my personal crazy reason to aim for Bubble buoys. I want to leave the course in for tricks and give points for whacking a buoy.

 

Eric

[RichardDoane]

bubble buoys are $40 each and are safer than an air filled buoy, but putting a little water into the same ball makes it so much safer for $5 each, and you can do a whole course for less than the cost of one bubble