Difference between Radar Vice and Senate-C performance wise

[DooSPX]

Is there a large performance difference between the Vice and Senate C. I am a 34mph open water skier and a 32 mph course whenever I make it to one.

 

Thanks

[andjules]

I've got the same question. In my case, I'm a -28 to -32 at 34mph skier. 5'7", 175-180lbs. The Vice, Senate C and HO CoX SL are all on my short list. I feel like I've got a solid lean, a slow edge change, and a tendency to get a bit forward/break on my offside turn.

[Monsterair]

I just did a lot of research on the Radar line before I purchased a Senate C myself. What I found was, basically, all the Radar slalom skis are based on the Strada shape. The Strada and Vice are the same shape with the difference being the materials used in the layup that makes the Strada more responsive. Both are intended as 36 mph skis. The Senate C and Senate are basically the same shape. The difference is while the Strada concave extends to the edges, the Senate gives a very small flat edge, 0.2 inch, on the edge for added volume and stability to make it a 34 mph ski. Layup on the senate C vs Senate is similar the the Strada vs Vice. The Radar Theory is also shaped based on the Strada (and Senate) except the flat edge from the concave to the edge is 0.5 inches to make the Theory a 32 mph ski. My wife skis a Theory and I ski a Senate C as she is basically a 32 mph skier and I'm a 34. Both skis are awesome. Never tried the Strada, as 36 mph regretably is behind me now. From what I've learned, the Senate C is basically a Strada made to be able to ski a little slower while still providing the performance of the Strada. The Vice and the standard Senate are a similar comparison with slightly less lively performance than the Strada and Senate C. The Theory again is the same shape made to allow an even slightly slower speed. Hope this helps. I called Radar directly to ask a few questions and they were very receptive and helpful.

[DooSPX]

@Monsterair, so the Vice and regular Senate are closer to each other performance wise, vs the Senate C? Thank you! Very helpful!

[andjules]

No, @DooSPX, I wouldn't say that. The Vice is (I think) 50-50 Carbon/Fiberglass and is a deep, deep shortline-capable ski - I think Trent Finlayson skis it. It's supposedly got a feel that's more 'dampened' than the Strada, but not necessarily any less capable in the right hands.

The regular Senate may not have any carbon in it. From what I've read, it'll take you into 22 off, maybe 28off max. The Senate C apparently has riders getting into -39 and -41.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has skied the Vice and the Senate-C at 34mph and can comment on the feel?

[DooSPX]

Thanks @andjules, and very good question about the feel.

[fu_man]

@andjules I bought a Senate 2 years ago and at the time I recall one of the Radar promo vids with Rossi and Rini describing the ski as mentioned above. If I remember correctly Rossi said that he was able to ski into -38 or -39 with the Senate.....but then again....he's Chris Rossi.

[Joeprunc]

@DooSPX How big are you, where do you want to go with your skiing? Wow that sounded pretty creepy.

 

If you are happy with the way you are skiing, skiing primarily open water, and hoping to get to -15 at 34 mph I'd say stick with the Senate C. If you are hooked on the course and want to progress beyond I'd say go with the Vice. I purchased a Vice two months ago and upped my open water skiing from 32 mph to 35 mph and my PB in the course from 6 at 32 mph -15, to 5 at 34 mph -15, all in two months. My old ski may have been limiting my ability just a little.

[DooSPX]

@Joeprunc, I am 180 lbs, most of my skiing is open water, as that's what I have access to all the time. I only hit the course when I travel, which isn't very often.

[Joeprunc]

I'd say go with the Senate C. Is there a place where you can demo them both back to back?

[DooSPX]

Performance Ski in Orlando, FL. The main problem with that is they are about an hour and a half, and I work 6 days a week, so its hard for me to travel that distance as needed.

[ctsmith]

I am hacker, a relatively new skier (to old (and fat) in age to be starting), ski on average one set per week, and occasionally get a successful 15 off/30 mph pass, so take this for what its worth. I'm also a radar buff. I've had the Theory, Senate, Senate C, and Strada. Without a doubt I ski better and feel much more comfortable and stable on the Strada.

 

 

[Killer]

you aren't a big heavy guy and you are skiing at 32mph+ which IMO is the biggest reason to get a wider body ski like the Senate ©.

 

there is also now the Vice C - lighter than the current vice (which is rather heavy) and same shape as the strada.

 

I would just buy the strada if I was you. I've been down this road and I feel it is even more important for us mortal skiers to use the lightest, quickest skis VS the super high end skiers who can ski on a 2x4.

 

The strada itself is a very stable ski. I much prefered it over the Vice I had. I make too many mistakes I need a ski that will help me out not hinder & the vice was not quick enough to react for my horrible form and reaction times. my 2cents

[ctsmith]

Killer, I wish someone would have given me the same advise when I was buying skis. I'd have saved LOTS of money in the end.

[TheBigHead]

I tried on the Vice last year, ski felt fast and stable.

 

At the time i was riding a 2009 senate C, Although the vice felt faster side to side I couldnt get it to turn as smooth as my '09 senate C.

 

This year I bought a 2012 Senate C, compared to my old senate C the new one is MUCH faster than my '09.

 

Im sure a new Strada would feel very similar.

 

I get a lot of comments on how much angle the senate C can make coming out of a turn.

 

I dont know why that vice i had felt so off in the turns.

 

I would highly reccomend the 2012 senate C to anyone, it has a great stable feel. Turns are fantastic and gets me going side to side fast.

 

@killer - Is right the Vice does seem rather heavy, maybe this new vice C is better but then why not just get the strada?

[Waternut]

They're all great ski's. I'd say find a deal on a 67" ski and look for all of the ski's you've mentioned. Heck, you can even look for deals on the Radar Annex. The Annex is the same concept as the Vice only it was based off of the old RS-1 instead of the Strada and it was all carbon instead of 50/50 carbon/fiberglass.

 

The difference in the Vice C and the Strada is still the core. The Vice is meant to be more forgiving.

[igkya]

Aren't the newer Senates (2010 +) the same as a Strada but 0.2" wider? And the Vice is the same as the Strada but a bit softer?

[Waternut]

@igkya that's pretty much been the concept for a while. The older senates were 0.2" wider than the old RS-1 and when the Strada came out, they became 0.2" wider than the strada. It sounds a little cheesy that the majority of Radar's ski's are based off of one top end ski and just modified slightly but at the end of the day, they work well and a lot of people like the ski's.

[Ilivetoski]

Not sure how many people have said this but here it goes, The idea behind Radar is ski shape is unviersal the only thing that should change is the volume of the ski when the intended speed of the ski decreases. In a nutshell: slower skis are wider, all skis have the basic strada shape. The Vice is a 36 mph ski, the Senete C is a 34 mph ski. I have not ridden either ski. The diffrence between the Vice and Strada is that the Vice will still use the polyurthane core and the strada will use the PVC core. I am 99% sure that the Senete C uses polyurthane as well. If anyone is considering Strada but doesnt want to spend the $$ the Vice-C will be ALMOST identical to the strada.