How To Fix Riding The Tail On My Onside

[JC McCavit]

I saw the video of TUP and thought to myself I ski way back on my on side 1-3-5. I am riding a 66 Vice with Rossi fin settings and bindings back 1 1/2 hole. I am 6'2" 175 lbs. If I move the bindings forward I can't run 35 off as often. I know I am not patient enough finishing my turns at the short rope length, what else am I doing wrong?

 

[Roger]

You're letting up as you enter the wakes causing the ski to alter direction towards the ball. Set your lean position at the end of your turn and then just maintain that position through the 2nd wake before you initiate your edge change. In this video, with letting up a bit before the wakes, the wake is initiating the edge change for you. I've been one of the boat judges for the 3 Big Dawg finals at Okeeheelee and one thing all those guys seem to do very well is not move much during the lean (and even through the edge change for that matter).

[JC McCavit]

@Roger - Thanks, now just how do I accomplish maintaining position through the 2nd wake? It sounds much easier to do than it is. I just read @Rich comment to the post "Tip Raise". Now I just need some basic fundamentals to accomplish holding the edge change after the second wake. Is there a drill or excercise I can practice at longer line lengths?

[Roger]

I kinda said it in the first post. Set your position at the end of the turn and hold still through the wakes. I like to think of keeping everything above the waist still and let the knees take any bumping. Your overall skiing position is not bad, but if you watch the video, you can see your shoulders and upper body start to move prior to hitting the wake (IE: you're getting ready for the bump). You need to fight this tendency and make the wake crossing something that happens, not something to get ready for...

[andjules]

@JC McCavit you're way ahead of me, so it's not really my place to chime in. And I think @Roger and @Rich are talking about the really important stuff that will help your progress.

 

Nonetheless, I'm intrigued by how far back the water is breaking on your foot coming into the turn - I don't think everyone who comes up early and stuggles with outbound momentum ends up that far back. I also notice you've got your bindings back and you're skiing a 66" @ 175lbs which might be on the edge of short @ 34mph (I notice you've also got a 67" strada in your signature). All of that makes me wonder if somewhere in your past you've had bad experiences with the opposite - the front of the ski digging in the preturn - and you're now compensating? Or have you always ridden like that? When I think of someone on a short ski, bindings back, riding back, it makes me think that person likes to push the end of the turn ('hook'), but to be fair, you seem fairly patient in your turn, letting it carve. Makes me wonder if you had other tendencies earlier in your ski career that made you comfortable with that setup.

 

Partly wondering because I'm 175 on a good day, and I think I'm long overdue to move from an old narrow 66" to a more modern 67". If I try to drop the speed to 32mph to work on something, it really doesn't support me in the turn (rides pretty deep). Which makes me wish I could get my weight further back (like you), even though I know that's not the ideal.

[andjules]

p.s. congratulations on awesome skiing for someone whose season must be awfully short. Getting into -38 when your home site is in Alaska is pretty damn cool.

[JC McCavit]

@andjules - My two ski partners up here are closer to running 38 than me. I skied both the 67 & 68 Strada and prefer the 66. I think the Strada skies a little bigger than its size represents. It does not feel small when riding it. After switching to the 66 I have gotten a lot more consistent at 35 off. I've never had a problem with the ski digging in the preturn, but when I move the binding forward the ski does not feel like it acceslerates as well. I think the tail riding is from the old days of hook and go. It is really hard to break old habits. I am going to learn to hold my position through the second wake. It can't be that hard.

[Rich]

here you go, when you gate out you need to come up with your hips more. Once you get out you seem to keep pressure on your lead (left) arm. I would turn in a little bit more (with upper body,head) look at the left corner at the back of the boat and allow the ski to carve into angle more, you start fairly hard from out wide, let the ski carve in a little more, think roll in and try not to load untill you get to the white water. Keep the lead arm more straight and loaded at this point, at the white water. push your hands down more. as you get to the 2nd wake keep the lead arm straight, resist and start to counter, do not allow the right shoulder to move or get twisted towards the boat. Resist as you go out (think right shoulder counter) stand up over the front foot with your hips as you approach the apex, this will get you going outbound and maintain tip pressure. Feel the line go behind you or advance your upper body over the line. Your right arm will be straight your left arm will be bent as you approach the apex, some coaches have called this "the pull up" I believe it is a function of keeping the lead arm straight, having the upper body advance over the line as you move up on the boat, which causes the inside arm to bend. If this is done correctly the line will start to be pulled from you as you arc out, that is how it should feel ( you have to be careful not to over load out wide at the start or you won't maintain outbound angle unless you are AM or superman, think resist) As the line is pulled from you, you will also find if done correctly it will roll out to your finger tips and feels very light, the ski will come under the line. As your 2nd or right hand comes on the handle, resist, don't pull, and ride the ski, don't fall back (it can feel good to allow hips to fall back on the on side) this will cause too much angle to soon and will effect outbound direction off of 2nd wake into next turn. At the white water begin to feel the load on the lead arm, keep lead arm straight and low, anklesbent, knees bent, repeat outbound direction instructions. As you can see your "handle control" is one of your biggest problems. Think about linking turns, start the turn at the white water and have a large arc all the way back to the white water. Using the discription I have given you can accomplish this kind of arc. The biggest resistance is off the 2nd wake, where most skiers relax, and not right after the turn, where most skiers "pull" the hardest, when they should just be resisting. I hope this all makes sence for you and it helps you to reach your goals. You have the athletic ability, just change your timing and handle control and you will be on your way. Good Luck!

[JC McCavit]

Thank you @Rich and BallofSpray, I will be studying my instructions and practicing this new to me technique for years to come.

[popof]

Hello everyone at Ballofspray. Well I'm new to this forum and definitely wouldn't want to sound like those Smart A*** that seem to know everything on their computer, specially given that I would like to ski at your level.

i've only started seriously skiing 5 years ago and I'm working my way into 32 off.

One thing I love is technique, and I must admit I've studied about every skiing style that I have had the opportunity to see in these past 5 years.

I've definitively noticed that many many people (and many here will hate me for saying this) go with double boots or double hardshell bindings for it increases your control over the ski, your safety etc etc, and I perfectly understand.

Now, one thing this does, is it gives skier the "ability" to control the ski with the rear foot, which is actually NOT something we are looking for theoretically.

In my very very humble advice (again, I would love to ski into 38 off, but give me some time haha), i think your are simply lacking weight on your front foot.

As often as I can I try to ski "only" on my front foot to get the feel and these happen to be my cleanest, smoooooothest passes. I myself am on a D3 T Factor front and wiley's RTP. I've seen waterski legends ski 41off with wiley's front and RTP... So I'm guessing it's doable :)

Again, this is only my humble opinion, and I know it is like Waterskiing 101, from what I've seen, people (even good skiers) tend to bypass it.

If it helps look for a guy called Scott Reardon on Youtube, I don't know him personally, but Scott has only one leg and Skis incredibly well into 28off @36mph.... Pretty impressive to look at, and forces you to consider skiing on your front leg ;)

Hope my beginner's point of view helps in any way!

Cheers

Romain

[MrBrown]

JC, Amazing skiing! Way to go! Your skiing reminds me of Jeff Rodgers!

 

 

Running a few buoys at 38off in a drysuit and in cold water to boot is much harder than it looks. Put you in 80 degree water without a drysuit and I bet you will be running 38off easily!

 

 

You are doing so many great things in your skiing!

 

-your weakside pull is awesome! You are in a strong leveraged position with your hips up, handle on your hip, great lean away from the boat, elbows to the vest. Very few skiers have as strong of a weakside pull as this!

 

-your strongside pull is awesome too!

 

-you have great extension on your reach

 

-your countering well on your onside turn

 

-your intensity level is a 10+. You don't leave anything on the dock!

 

 

Things to work on!

 

-You need to counter rotate on your offside turn 2,4,6. Currently their is no CR. Because of this, your are rolling your left shoulder over and snatching the handle instead of CR and skiing the outside hip (left hip) to the handle. That's one thing that caused the not so perfect turn at 2 ball @ 38off. Because of your great strength, you are still able to get into a fairly strong pulling position by the wakes on your longer line lengths but 38off is not working for you!

 

-you seem to be overturning 1,3,5 a bit and this is causing you to break forward at the waist a bit out of 1,3,5. This is causing you to be in a "less than perfect" pulling position when you hit the wakes. Maybe the ski is riding higher on the water because of the cold water, the tail might be sliding a bit. If you could finish that Onside 1,3,5 turn smoothly with just a little less cross course angle,.. that would really help you to stay ahead in the pass.

 

-Because you are falling slightly back on your tail on your onside turn 1,3,5,......try reaching initially more forward instead of directly to the pylon. I have found that on the Onside turn that reaching more forward will help to pull your weight slightly more forward and centered on the ski. If you reach too far back on your onside turn, this could cause you to fall slightly backward and on the tail. Because of body mechanics, you can reach directly to the pylon (or behind it) on your offside turn, and still be balanced without falling backward.

 

Here are some pics of Jeff R. and Todd Ristocelli past the second wake. I wouldn't be too concerned about being too far back on the ski here!

 

[ForrestGump]

JC, Think of reaching over the buoy. This creates a natural counter and shifts weight towards your front foot, engaging the forward rocker of the ski and keeping it engaged as the boat brings the ski back inbound.

[MrBrown]

JC, correction,...I stated the you were "countering well on your Onside" which is incorrect. My bad. If you were in fact countering well, there would be no need for you to reach more forward in order to shift your weight forward and centered over the ski!

 

@shaneH is right on the money!!!

[Rich]

@sking to heaven, be cautious of reaching forward, His problem is that he is not stacked with his COM/hips over the front foot. If he reaches forward without correcting this his COM/hips, his COM/hips will stay back as his upper body moves forward. The problem starts with where his arms & hands are behind the boat (higher than they should be and allows his COM to fall back because with high hands the upper body is doing most of the work and the legs/core/upper body are not working as a integrated unit) and continues in the transition (edge change) as he is not countering enough with his COM and upper body as he moves outbound. By correcting his handle position (hands lower, lead arm locked & loaded) behind the boat (centerline), his countering and resistance to the forward motion of the boat as he moves out off the 2nd wake & into the apex will allow more line tension off the 2nd wake into the turn which should be starting at the white water off the 2nd wake. The line will be slightly pulled from him at a few feet before the apex. and he can reach toward the pylon or where the line is coming from. An advanced movement on the offside is to reach by starting with the elbow locked to the hip and reach down (offside reaching down 1st will bring more weight over front foot because our COM is back, our hips are not as countered naturally on offside due to the way we stand on the ski) then forward or to where the line pull is coming from, on the onside start with elbow locked at the hip and reach forward or where the line pull is coming from, but not down. On the onside your hips are naturally countered already (which puts more pressure on the front foot in the preturn/transition with our COM over the fronnt foot) because of the nature of the way we stand on the ski so the ski will come back under the line easier. Thats why its our onside. Its also why we can fall back after the turn on the onside and get too much angle. We want to stay with the ski as we come around the corner (turn) on the onside and resist the urge to let our hips fall back. That takes patience and will slighltly slow the turn down allowing us to be closer to the white water at the completion, which allows us to carry the outbound direction into the next turn. I hope this makes sense : I just wanted to illustrate that most problems occur 2 to 3 steps before they recognized. As you can see all these movements are linked together. If one of the movements are left out it can cause lots of problems. Wholesale changes in timing are sometimes needed and you have to take 1 step back to make some BIG leaps forward in your progress.

[MrBrown]

@rich wrote -"be cautious of reaching forward, His problem is that he is not stacked with his COM/hips over the front foot. If he reaches forward without correcting this his COM/hips, his COM/hips will stay back as his upper body moves forward. "

 

Please review JC video again and take a good look at his 1,3,5 turn. In my opinion, he has great alignment coming into the turn and he is leading with his Center of Mass/Center of Gravity (which is just below his belly button). If JC reaches slightly more forward of the pylon on his onside turn DOES NOT MEAN that that JC is going to break forward at the waist and lead with his shoulders and trail with his hips through the turn.

 

JC has a stay back style of skiing, and thats his own unique style. I know skiers running 39off with this type of stay back style. My style is very similiar. Different skiing style utilize different techniques to make them work. It is not 1 technique fits all skiing styles or 1 reach fits all. As a matter of fact,... I actually reach high and behind the pylon on my offside turn, and my offside turn is awesome!!! I don't follow your "reach down technique" on the offside turn that you spoke in your post.

 

Because I ski a very similiar "stay back style", for me reaching slightly forward of the pylon on my onside turn helps me to shift my weight slightly more forward and center over the ski allowing it to carve a nice turn.

 

Cheers!!!! ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gregy]

Here's a Rossi Article I remembered: Dreaded Tail Turn

 

 

http://www.slalomguru.com/articles.php?article=tail