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Terry Winter-- Best Skier of all time for his size?

matthewbrown

By matthewbrown
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matthewbrown Rising Star

matthewbrown

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At maybe 5'9" he crushed a tail wind 39 at the western regionals and then went on to run 3@41 in route to victory over the likes of Nate Smith and Nick Parsons. It would be one thing if this was the first time he had skied so well but he's been quitely skiing this good for over 10 years now. There are many fantastic skiers out there and a handful that can ski as good/better then Terry but is there anyone at 5'9" who has ever run this top end buoy count on a consistent basis?
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matthewbrown Rising Star

matthewbrown

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@mattp he's got Terry by about an inch but that's a great point. I guess the same argument can be made for Marcus....I think he does have a few more pro tour wins then Terry but as far as their performances over the years it has been Yen and Yang, nearly identical. Maybe I should reword the question.....would it be fair to say that for their size, Terry and Marucs are the two best slalom skiers ever?

I get the fact that being tall has some minor set backs but you will never be able to convince me that those set backs are greater then someone considerably shorter.

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6balls Grand Master

6balls

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How tall is Sammy Duvall? If I recall he was a solid slalom skier and tricker, and I think he jumped OK too : ) His slalom scores are obviously not Terry and Marcus type scores, but given where the bar was back then among pro's, he did pretty well by comparison.

 

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kfennell Experienced

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Wim Decree is definately the best skiier I've ever seen in person (sorry ward, you are NOT pretty!), and that was with a broken wrist, he is seriously very very pretty to watch, but very short. He private coaches for a family at our lake... they fly him in for the week when the come so I have got a few lessons from him this summer.
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Drago Veteran

Drago

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Sammy ran 38 maybe a couple of times. Saw a few scores of "6". So figured gates were missed. Glad to see Marcus, Nick, and Nate there. They don't have to throw down the big dollars for 1 round of non-cash tourney.
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MarcusBrown Community Regular

MarcusBrown

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I have Terry by 0.5" max

 

But what counts, head height? or Reach?...cuz his monkey arms give him at least 3-4 Inches over my reach.

 

My clincher steals about another 2" at 2,4,6

 

He has squeaked the ski around 3 in more tourney's than I have though....

 

Also, Greg Tate needs lasik or something.....dude couldn't tell the difference between the entry gates and 1 ball....

 

 

 

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jlittle Collaborator

jlittle

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@MarcusBrown why are you hatin' on Greg. Not saying he doesn't need lasik, or that he doesn't deserve it, and I suspect it's all in good fun. Somewhat. But, well, just but.

 

IMO, entry gates are overrated. However, I suppose if they're there, and the rules say we have to go through them, then I guess we should. But it's not a super big advantage to go early at the shorter line lengths. Just my opinion.

 

The missed call can go the other direction too. At 2008 w. regionals here in the NW my main ski buddy of 35+ years ened up second due to missed gate, and a missed call to the guy who ended up first. I think the gentleman lurks around the forum here a bit. Anyway, he didn't totally give up skiing because of it. It happens.

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Skoot1123 Veteran

Skoot1123

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@MarcusBrown - Will see you and TW at Malibu Open next week! Can't wait as it's the only tournament I get to go to. Love watching you pro's ski. Best of luck to you and TW at MalibuOpen!

 

As a "short" skier (5'9') I wish I could get to that point of 32, 35, 38.....perhaps in time. But kudo's to all those that can!

 

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eleeski Grand Master

eleeski

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It did seem that there was a normal height distribution in Open slalom in the Western Regionals this year. It was an impressive display of skill in that division - not height (Brian Kinney styled it despite having the optimum stature for a jumper or tricker). Shorter skiers may have an advantage in quickness and angle that balances a reach advantage. Although Nick Parsons looked pretty skilled despite being too (?) tall.

 

If there was a physical trait that was unusual amongst those skiers, it would be how light they were. All seemed to be a bit skinnier than their size and ability to apply power would suggest. Less weight training? Stricter diets? But Terry might have been the most "buff" of the group. He'd still look anorexic at Disneyland...

 

It was weird how many missed gates there were in Open. No massive complaints in the other divisions so the views should have been OK. Would you expect the most skilled skiers to make bonehead mistakes at such a massive rate? An unofficial video seemed to show Nate's gates as OK. Trickers were scoring fairly - maybe "those" judges were at the slalom lake cutting gates. As a spectator, I felt cheated.

 

Marcus WAS struggling with gates that day. As I was coming back onto the site swooping through the entry to Bell Aqua in the official's golf cart (that I had stolen - Owen needs to fix that cart), Marcus had to skid his car to a stop to avoid the crash. I made it through the gates - he didn't.

 

Eric

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webbdawg99 Mentor

webbdawg99

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You guys are correct. I made a typo. Wim's website states that he is 5'7". I think it definitely puts him on the list of best skiers for his size. But then the question can be asked, "what defines 'the best'"? I think an argument can be made for every guy mentioned on this thread. No matter how you call it, one thing is for certain..they're all amazing athletes!
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DW Grand Master

DW

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I often thought that a great equalization factor to negate the advantage of height would be to measure the skier+handle=xx rather than simply the handle must be in tolerance. This technique is done in numerous other sports using other parameters such as weight. More thought does indicate if used, the short (read lightweight) skier would then have the advantage as less mass needs to be moved, lower cg and generally more quickness would tilt the advantage to the shorter/lighter skier.

 

Eric, I think your comment on "ability to apply power" should actually read "ability to absorb power" since one really does not do any work when pushing a rope. The human body mass requirements are quite different for applying and absorbing power. I think that also provides insight on why lighter skiers seem to score well. Another sport focused on athlete weight that also requires a lot of BTU's to succeed is cycling. The top guys are really light (120-145 lbs), particularly the mountain kings.

 

Along the lines of "really good athletes" I recall a few threads on the original BOS site about how well the slalom skier group scored in the best athlete competitions they used to hold. If I recall correctly, the MotoX guys tended to do extremely well.

 

So, potato chips + TV + couch does not equal "great skier"!!!

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jlittle Collaborator

jlittle

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Yeah MB, my comments were tounge in check too as I know you guys have been friends for years. Emotion is hard to convey in the written word, didn't mean for you to have to explain yourself and I'm sorry for that.
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matthewbrown Rising Star

matthewbrown

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Thanks @Horton, for getting the discussion back on track(F1 racing, give me a break). I certainly didn't mean to discount the great skiing of Wim Decree and I know he should be mentioned in this discussion especially if the reports of 5'7" are accurate. Terry and Marcus are accomplished Pro Tour veterans with multiple titles, podium finishes and world cup standings under their belt as well as having placed in the top 20 nearly every year(excluding injuries)on the IWSF world ranking list the last 10 years, and each has placed inside the top 10 at least once. Wim looks to be consistently on the list as well but a little further down, and I really don't know if Wim has had a chance to ski in as many tours as Marcus and Terry so it could be that he just doesn't have the numbers on his side. Again, at 5'7" I have nothing but respect for Wim and being a fellow lefty I would love to ski with him someday---I'm headed to west palm in a few weeks so maybe someone can hook me up with him!

I liked what @DW said in reference to having the reach+handle being even across the board or at least have a tolerance for it, that would be great to watch at a record or pro tour tourney..... I think the advantage would definitely go to guys like Wim, Terry and Marcus. I've seen Marcus and Terry practice with a 6" extension on the rope, not only were their 39's much easier but instead of running 2,3 and occasionally 4 at 41, they started running 4,5 and the whole pass. But, this the nature of the sport, you can't penalize Parrish for being 6'5", I mean if a defensive back was to play as a D lineman you wouldn't make all the lineman drop 100 pounds.

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jimbrake Mentor

jimbrake

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@chef23. And his 182 was with a 3/4 cut, 5 1/2 foot ramp, tailwind. Very safe. He just started back jumping last year. He could go far if he wanted to push it. Don't think he's tricked since he was a kid, but I'm sure he'd be good at that, too.
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