Experienced Fluid Motion guys.

[ski6jones]

I'm considering a move to a Fluid Motion front and something else on the rear.

 

Anyone have comments on their personal experience with FM, and if so which model.

 

I'm interested in your confidence with the release, durability, safety, etc. All the typical binding things.

 

Thanks.

[cwillygood]

i recently switched from the Radar Strada Boots to a Fluid Motion Front Boot and Wiley Back Boots, i honestly feel much safer, though i have not released from the front yet, but i haven't had to yet thankfully. I really like how it feels, it's comfy and really translates the movement of your foot very well to the ski, which isn't always a good thing haha. I have had a few problems with the binding buckles, the middle one sometimes comes unbuckled, but besides that, not complants.

 

[cwillygood]

whoops, i guess i didn't totally read through, probably not experienced yet haha

[ski6jones]

@cwillygood, is that the Revo?

 

[Triplett]

@cwillygood, why did you opt for the FM front and not the Reflex?

[DUSkier]

Been on FM "E's" for about 3 seasons now and have not had any issues other than routine stuff (Loose screws) Went to hard shells as could not use rubber anymore (Dodgy ankle) and the thought of something pre releasing is not for me. Have not actually come out of the boots yet but have felt them "Half go" a few times at about the same point my ankle gives a little "GET ME OUTTA HERE" so know they are suited to me well. Have a mate with same binding setup and have seen him come out of his a couple of times when you would expect. Took me a while to get in sync with them at the start and had placement issues as well ( Came of Approaches ) ended up running them 10mm further forward on ski. Hope this helps.

[skibug]

Been on FM E-Series FB with RTP since 2007. Not a single issue with releasing when I should have...no binding related injuries since I have had them. I will qualify this by saying I am not one to let go of the stuff I should; so I have had many, many yard sales...no issues. I had very little problem transitioning from HO Animals the FM E-Series. I feel they are the safest hardshell/hybrid out there.

[kfennell]

Just changed last week to Revo front and Strada rear from double stradas, loving it, need to find another plate so I can use the boot on both skis! (trick)

[MattP]

I would go with the Reflex System.

[ski6jones]

@MattP, why? I see plenty riding reflex with good results, but I also saw a pre-release on reflex that scared the C&@p out of me. I'm sure it was not properly adjusted, or whatever, but still.

 

Can you elaborate?

 

And everyone else, thanks for the input.

 

[Triplett]

@ski6jones, you pre released out of the reflex? That is a risk that is taken with any hardshell system to be honest. The FM single uses a 404 reflex release so it could pre release the same way the reflex did. I find, at least with visual inspection, that there is too much going on with the FM. It is bulky and seems like more could go wrong.

 

I went from the Powershell to a reflex about two years ago and love it. I have released around the ball where it shouldn't have but I just tightened it up a little bit.

 

There are pros and cons to every release system. The Reflex seems the more simple, less can go wrong, of the two. Because when you break it down, they are really close to the same, the FM just has more bulk and more buckles and more bling, basically.

 

[ral]

The 404 unit has a tendency to break over time at the welding point where the horizontal bar is attached. The 500 unit (which Reflex uses now) is made out of Titanal (an alloy made out of aluminium, zinc, magnesium, copper, zirconium - has not seen titanium ever, but is called like that, a bit like the titanium coated wetsuits...), and does not have any welded parts.

[MattP]

@ral is correct the 500 reflex uses is a much better product than the 404 which I have had shatter on me before in the middle of a turn.

[Ryno]

I swapped my front Strada Boot for a Fluid Motion E-Series a couple of months ago. Very happy with the swap. You can read my write up and see pictures here:

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/5216

[DUSkier]

@Triplett cannot pre release out of FM E's this is the main reason I went with this system as had seen a couple hard shell systems pre release and well,,, it did not look like fun!! =)

[ski6jones]

@DUSkier, The E-Series is the one where the release is via the detachable cuff, correct?

 

@Triplett, I SAW a pre-release from the boat. Directly behind the boat crossing the second wake and the binding released. It was ugly. Skier was in good shape at the time.

[skibug]

The FM E-series is just a set of laces and 2 buckles.. not over complicated.

 

@ski6jones, we have 7 skiers at our site of the FM E-Series ranging from long liners to Elite MM skiers and I have never seen a pre-release, ever. This is the design with the releasable cuff.

 

 

[ktm300]

I've been on the same set up as @cwillygood since 2006. Flawless. Has never pre-released. Has never failed to release when it should. Sturdy as they come.

[SM]

I've had the FM Quattro with dual plates setup since 2005. I'm still on the same boots and liners. I have cracked the base plates twice in the 7 years I've had them and I would say that is because I used too much velcro on the back boot. If you used the single plate model, you would eliminate this problem. I prefer the dual plates as I can walk around in them. The velcro is only necessary to keep your ski from falling off when you jump off the platform and crossing wakes, I don't think it really contributes to the release system that significantly.

 

I've never pre-released in these bindings and never been hurt my ankles in them unlike my days in rubber. I have banged my shins on them in some extreme crashes. These bindings need to be installed within a pretty tight tolerance unlike the E-Types. I like the Quattros over the E's as there is no chance that I can crash and still have one foot in a binding and one foot out. That being said, I've never seen the 1 foot in 1 foot out thing happen with the E's

 

My kids ski on E-types with a rear kicker, they will be allowed double E's (if they want) when their feet stop growing and they stop having stupid crashes. Kids...

[jedgell]

@ski6jones - That pre release sucked! Still think about it anytime I see someone on a Reflex. I'm sure I didn't have it adjusted right, but I wouldn't get use it again. How's your skiing going, running 35? I just dropped down to 34 last year, so I'm getting deep into 35, only run it once. My wife and I just moved to Salem, OR. Joined a cool ski club, been skiing a lot the last couple weeks. Need to find a job sometime though.

[Triplett]

@jedgell, what system did you go to after the reflex pre-released. I will have to say I have never heard of a reflex releasing across the wake.

[ski6jones]

@jedgell, Jobs are highly over rated. Welcome to old man speed! Glad your skiing regular, and well it sounds like. I'm getting 35 done usually at least once per set, sometimes more. I've got a few back to backs and couple times run it straight up the line. I've have 4.5 and 5 this year in tournaments.

 

What took you to OR?

[cwillygood]

@Triplett i felt that the FM was more rugged, built better, not likely to break, yeah it might be a little heavier, but i like how it offers alot of support and the liner is a bit thicker, i honestly would like either system, it pretty much is the same thing, but the reflex shell looks flimsy to me, im not saying that its bad in any means, i mean look at all the great skiers on it

[MattP]

Look at all the great skiers on the FM!... oh...ummm. JT, Nick Adams.... uhmm.... yeah!

[ski6jones]

@MattP, do you have any first hand experience with the FM E-Series?

 

[jedgell]

@ski6jones - good skiing. My wife just finished up school and is a Pharmacist. There weren't any jobs in MT, and she was offered a great job on OR. Hated to leave MT, but getting to like it out here.

[Chef23]

My son prereleased on a Reflex a couple of weeks ago but it wasn't adjusted properly he had grown substantially since I set it up originally and I hadn't adjusted it. Once I adjusted it properly it has been fine.

[epyscs]

I have ridden the FM E-Series, the 404 Revo and Reflex for a couple of seasons on trick and slalom.

 

The E-Series I gave up on after I had 2 extra cuffs sent due to pre-release. Of the 3 cuffs, 2 were manufactured wrong (they machine the cuff manually), and the original released too easily - and despite this, I never got a working replacement or refund. In fact I never got a reply to my last emails and voicemails. I ended up heavily modifying the boot to make it work. Note the e-Series failed on me in practice for a big event and took me bolting to the ski to get through the tournament.

The Revo is a heavy boot and could really feel the weight on the ski. The buckles for me degraded very badly and were non-functional after a season (admittedly I do ski a bit in Salt). I have also seen 2 failed 404 units, again at the weld area as mentioned by others. One resulted in a big yard sale at the wakes, the other went on the dock of all places!

 

I finally switched to a Reflex system 18 months ago and all is going well. I also picked up one of the slalom boots when they came out too. Yes the boot is a little softer for lateral support, but the quality is noticeably better, the release seems better built and the buckles are all good and still working fine with no obvious signs of degradation. I had meant to get the aluminum buckles, but they didnt have any when I ordered and these have been good.

 

Re the liner being thinner - I prefer the thicker silver liner and this feels almost the same as the FM liners which are admittedly more comfortable than the thinner black Reflex liner.

 

So on choice... Reflex all the way for me and I am happy with my choice. Safer, better quality and better support.

 

Disclosure: I am now a Reflex dealer (skier first), but only after I tried the bindings and would happily stand up for the product.