Have the Bubble Buoys been controversial at all or is it a non issue? They've been out for a while.

[Wish]

What if he had won?

Goode Atlanta Pro-Am.. from the Horton collection

[Razorskier1]

I noticed this picture immediately -- pretty cool picture, but it does raise that question. What we don't know is if that was scored as a made buoy/pass or not.

[Horton]

Tie goes to the runner

 

[RichardDoane]

it's hard to beat a $5 ball with a little water in it

[ScaredOfCorbets]

If he won, then that's probably the end of it. However, if a record was set, then it maybe a different story. I don't know the exact process of approving them.

 

From the Rule book:

 

10.03 A Miss

A. It is a miss to ride inside a turn buoy or outside the entrance or exit gate, or

to ride over, straddle, or jump a turn buoy, but there is no penalty for grazing

a turn or gate buoy with the ski or part of the body.

B. Riding over shall be defined as hitting a turn or gate buoy with the ski so as to

move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it. Hitting a turn or

exit gate buoy less severely shall be considered as grazing. (See chart in

Appendix)

 

so, based on the photo, he missed.

[9400]

oh I dunno...looks like a graze to me.

[Chuck_Dickey]

We've had both and these work better than the water filled buoys. We put 15 months on our first set and have just replaced them.

[Wish]

But back to what @ScaredofCorbits said...... What if this was the pass or two before the record?? Does he get it??

[Ed_Johnson]

Were on our third season with Bubble Buoys. Had water before that, and there is no comparison. With BB's you can ski without fear. Hit them so many times it's rediculous. Just keep on going, instead of a trip to the ER.

[gjohnson]

The front foot is used as the reference point for determining whether a skier missed or grazed the buoy. In the photo of JT, his front foot has yet to reach the point of judgement, X-Y axis points. So calling it a miss is a little premature. You can speculate but as Horton said, tie goes to the runner. Calling it in real time is difficult. The skier gets the benefit of the doubt.

[ScaredOfCorbets]

Yes I agree that real time the skier gets the benefit of doubt. However, we're talking about the photo. One, he significantly displace or straddle the buoy already. Secondly, I don't think his front foot can get outside of the buoy based on how deep the ski edge is set already.

 

I'm calling it miss if all I had was this photo. Your opinion is different obviously.

[Horton]

I was there ... well I was taking photos. Pretty sure this is one of those things you can not see at the time without a high speed camera

[gjohnson]

For records, a special committee looks at video and scrutinizes the set to make sure everything is ok. I don't believe they'd have access video, or photos for that matter, from the angle the picture was taken above.

 

I don't understand how it can be a miss when the front foot hasn't crossed the X-Y access? Maybe the next few frames would provide that information, but in the above photo JT hasn't reached the point where it can be scored zero, 1/4, 1/2, or 1.

[MattP]

Just make sure you routinely burp them... hit a few last week that threw me and released my reflex... not fun, when you mentally know they should not do that. I think they need a valve on top to help regulate air pressure

[teammalibu]

As MS would say bubble bouys Rock!

[6balls]

Surely the bubble buoys are safest, but water-filled are head and shoulders over air only. My skier went right over one last night with no disruption.

[DW]

Matt, are you indicating they tend to build up air pressure over time? Do you burp by simply pushing some of the air out by pushing down on the tops of them?

 

My limited experience with a set of them was very positive and appreciated the fact they can be run over and not end the run or the set . . . It is nice to have a couple of safety improvments developed recently for buoys.

[The_MS]

Use rubber bindings and if for some reason you hit the ball, you will release.

I love the BB and get to use them at Cottonwood and the Ranch. I have hit regular balls many times in the past and have not had problems. Sit them low in the water and you go over them. Ski safe.

[Razorskier1]

I have whacked a lot of buoys in my day, but have yet to have one bite me back (other than a red mark or a bruise). If I'm going to get hurt in the course, it is more likely a massive eject OTF fall at the wakes than anything else, and I have hurt myself doing that. I think the BB is a great idea, but I'm not worried about hitting buoys. If I regularly ran deep into 39 off I'd probably feel differently!

[ral]

Actually, Goode buoys will move less and sink less than a traditional or water filled buoys when hit. They will lose their shape (as seen in JT's pic), before moving or sinking (just as background info, I use them in my lake, so I do have experience with their behavior). So unless you go flat with your ski over it or slide your ski over it from the inside, it won't sink, and it won't move a lot. The rule does not mention "significantly deform".

 

 

"B. Riding over shall be defined as hitting a turn or gate buoy with the ski so as to

move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it."

[MattP]

@DW

Yes, in the sun and if there is to much air in side the ball they get just as hard as a regular buoy. You burp them by pushing air out and then re adjusting the sub buoy.

One other complaint is that when they seem to be a the perfect depth and when they are compressing the best they tend to hang a little crooked. For an OCD person who does most of our clubs buoy work it is kinda annoying to look down the lake and see balls that are crooked. I think it has to do with the way the pool noodles are attached and free floating.

[Dirt]

I think the bubble buoys are the safest option. The water filled are the next best thing. I hit an air filled buoy a few weeks ago and ended up on crutches with a swollen knee. A week off work, doctors visit, cortisone shot, etc...

Judging by that photo alone, it is a clear miss. The ski went directly over the buoy and folded it in half. No credit for riding over them. It does not matter what part of the ski displaces it. JMO

[Wish]

Just from the photo, his position and what we know of outbound movement on an inside edge. If the tip of the ski folds it but the ski is traveling off the buoy to the outside and does do this by the mid or back section of the ski, does it count?

[jackski]

I guess the rules have to be looked at now that we have bubble bouys.

[Horton]

@dirt tell me again about how bad it hurt. Makes me so happy

[schroed]

I've seen a number of pictures just like the one above when tournaments have used bubble bouys including the Diablo Shores Pro Am and Nationals. I agree that bubble bouys are the safest option out there, but I think they do have a flaw. The basic problem is that since they don't move or get displaced in the water, they are very hard to judge in real time. I would bet that if you watched that pass the picuture was taken of JT you may not even think to review it. I wonder if they could be redesigned to move more in the water so that they'd displace towards the shore if you run over the inside of the buoy.

[Wish]

Seems to me that any pro that sets a pending world record has pretty good odds of doing this same thing. And having a photo like that floating around would suck. Even if you were awarded the record. You'd always question it and be questioned. I suppose there are other sports like that. Could lasers be set at one end of the lake sited down the buoy lines ( ski has to break that plain along with the regular judges all around) be a plausible solution. Or just more equipment to purchase and malfunction.

[Kelvin]

No, No, No - we don't need any more equipment or technology in this sport. Just because it could theoretically be done doesn't mean it should be. Take MLB for example. There is much more money riding on professional baseball, but they still rely on human umpires to make the call and they have way more resources at their disposal to use instant replay, but they choose not to. Sure, they get it wrong sometime, but life goes on. There is significantly less money riding on a waterski tournament and the technology requirements we have now are ridiculous. This is my opinion on the matter coming from a Senior Judge and tournament organizer that has put on a Bid Dawg qualifier, a Pro Tour stop and is getting ready to do a record 3-event tournament in a month.

 

I believe a single judge in the boat can get the score correct on a high enough percentage of the time. For higher stakes, put a second judge in the boat or use a camera, but that is all the technology we should need.

 

In the photo of Jon that started this thread, I'm not sure any 60P video from the boat would have captured the action well enough to take away credit for this buoy. Most video cameras like to use a shutter speed of 60 frames per second which would have left a blurry image as the camera is swinging from side to side to capture the shot.

[AggieSkier]

Are they more or less prone to color fading than Overton's ski balls?

 

How do they fare against tubers and boarders? Do they require more up keep?

[pjirsa]

how about against jet skis? i'd buy a whole set if i knew they would get sucked up and ruin the jet ski.

[Jim Neely]

We have a set on a public lake since March. We've had one get cut up and needed a dome replacement. Lots of jet ski, fishing boats, pontoons, etc. in our cove. I've been surprised by how little maintenance they have required. Color seems to hold as good as other buoys.

[9400]

Doesn't the rule (as far as scoring is concerned) relate to the front foot? These buoys don't appear to "displace" very much side to side. It's entirely possible, I would say probable that the front foot could end up in the proper position to be scored as I assume it was scored.

[ForrestGump]

Yes, the rule is based on the front foot location. The ski doesn't turn on a rail either. The tail slides. So while the perspective of the picture here shows one thing. If the picture was from down the lake or from above and you saw the arc of the ski path, it's entirely possible you would see something different.

[Horton]

What Shane said

[AggieSkier]

I contacted Goode and they say:

 

"The material used by Goode and Overton's should be pretty similar so the fading should be the same. The Goode buoy domes can be turned inside out so that you could use both the inside and outside of the dome if there is any fading.

The replacement cost for a single dome would be $20."