DAL Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I've been thinking about this for a while as, like most, I'm tempted to invest in a new stick. Of course, the latest is FAR better than anything previously built and will result in more buoys, if we believe the marketing campaigns.... But there's nothing really wrong with my current ride (2006 Monza). I'm far better off to invest the cash into some quality lessons. So, what's the popular consensus on ski development over say the last 5 years? Sure, there's some new players in the market which makes it interesting but has ski development really made any leaps and bounds over this period? Your thoughts guys??? Don't hold back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaredOfCorbets Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Here's my opinion: The manufacturing process perhaps is more consistent, thus a stick from one company is more predictable. There will always be design tweaks, thus changing the riding characteristics. Design itself probably has not have major breakthrough in recent years. Think about it, you can only change so much on something that work. So, in my mind, the tweaks result in different riding characteristics. Keep in mind that design changes are made at all levels. For example, bad a$$es skiing at -39 will want different feel and performance from skier who are at 15 off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RichardDoane Posted May 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 17, 2012 @DAL - go on SIA and buy a good used Strada, it'll be a noticeable improvement over your Monza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I'm at least a full pass better on my Sans Rival vs my old Sixam SS, and that was one of the top skis only 5 years ago. Surely the technology has to hit the wall somewhere and it will be just down to the skier. But at this stage ski development is definitely making steps forward. My SR2 is an obvious improvement over the Sixam - and I thought that was the best ski ever when I first rode it! It seems to me as though the top skis are getting wider due to the amount of guys skiing at 55 kph these days, where as a few years ago all the top skis were aimed toward pro skiers at 58 kph. If you are going to get a new stick, ensure it will suit the level/speed you are skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted May 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 17, 2012 Skis are definitely wider. The A2 is as wide as a Goode Mid Ride, also. A lot of skis from 5+ years ago had an hourglass shape in front of the bindings in order to allow the ski to drop in behind the buoy. Mfr's have found they don't need this now due to other changes they've found in rocker, bevels, flex, etc. This in itself has made the newer skis more consistent to ski on because they don't bite at the finish of the turn. If you look at all of todays top skis, they are designed to carry more speed at the turn in order to keep the skiers mass moving. Gone are the days of turn, stop, pull, turn, stop, pull, etc. But then again, you've got guys like Tynan still riding an old X5 and killing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skidawg Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think a big Plus to new design is consestency, a new/better design helps you replicate ur harder passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Interesting stuff. @Horton : any comments here John? You've been testing various ski's consistently over the years. @Brooks : love you to chime in with your thoughts also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted May 18, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 18, 2012 I rode a Mastercraft Pro hard for over ten years. Put it away wet. PB on it in the late 80 early 90 The A2 sure looks similar in width and cut to me. Skis last longer than you think. GREAT WAY TO BOOST THE ECONOMY though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2012 Skis do evolve. The Monza was cutting edge when it came out and today it is really junk. If you are skiing 15 off it is fine but life would be easier on a newer ski. Designers are tweaking widths, tapers, bevels, tunnel radius, thicknesses, rockers, flexes and so on. I think on average we get a generation of skis every 3-4 years. The factories are under pressure to always improve. Sometimes new is not better or sometimes the new ski is not for everyone. You guys are talking about width at the front of the ski but that is only a small part of the story. The S2 is wide up front and pretty wide at the tail. The new Mapple is also pretty wide up front but I do not think it is any where near as wide at the tail. Based on this info there is no way to tell how these to ski will ride. The factories are all competing for our dollars so they have to improve. Trust me EVERY factory is working the next ski. If they are not they are doomed. @Thanger if you rode the same ski for 10 years... wow. Skis that are ridden hard to not generally last years. The RTM stuff lasts longer and the new Mapple stuff my last extra long but the standard ski has a life. Was your MC super stiff? Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2012 @DAL if you got a Strada, Fusion or S2 I would bet that after one set you would kick yourself for waiting so long. I list these 3 skis because I think these are skis that anyone can get on and ski pretty good first set. Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted May 18, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 18, 2012 Skis do get stale. Regardless of any physical breakdown, you adapt to a ski's quirks and end up getting lazy. Performance falls off. When you spend a lot of money on a new ski you are forced to step up and make take advantage of the best features of the design. At least your skills need to adapt to the new ski. Learning new skills is always useful. Whenever Horton puts a Ball of Spray sticker on my ski it seems that the ski no longer rocks. Factory skis are copying my designs so obviously they will improve! Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 I think that the mfgrs are all chasing there tails. There is only so much you can do with design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 I was back on my Monza for a few weeks and it felt like any other ski I have tested in the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2012 @MS I think that the mfgrs are all chasing there tails. There is only so much you can do with design. I love you like a brother but .... maybe you just can't feel the difference. Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wish Posted May 18, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 18, 2012 I disagree with MS..... Hay, does that get me a badge (disagree with MS badge) or do I have to disagree in 25 posts?. I've been a fare share of skies over the years and spent all of last summer testing most skies out there a week or more at a time. They felt nothing like skies of 4-5 yrs ago. Some were total surprises. I think there are more boundaries to be pushed. The step bottom is a good example of out of the box thinking. And IMHO works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Maybe I am wrong but there will come a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2012 what sporting goods product has not gotten better with R&D? Are bikes the same as 5 or 10 years ago? What about golf clubs? Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skidawg Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 @horton????? Why are u arguing w MS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2012 @skidawg Good point. I forgot what I was doing. Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Bowling balls and ping pong balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted May 18, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 18, 2012 ...and hockey pucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Wallace Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 HMMMMM. I think I'll stay away from this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Come on Ham, say it. MS is Right. All together now, MS is Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_roberts_jr Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Don't know about bowling balls but the newest Nittaku Premium ping pong balls are pretty cool and they also cost 2.50 ea. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Wallace Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Wallace Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 99.9999999% of thre time, MS is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Wallace Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 C'mon guys, let's go through the evolution time line for slaloms for the past 50 years! Let's start with the Alfredo Mendoza, DPJ, Lil' Monster (regular, tournament bevel, and concave, Hedlund Joe Cash and Joe Cash Concave, Northland Shark (flat bottom, concave and straked), El Diablo, El Bruto, Reflex, Freyere, Ron Marks, TaperFlex, Connelly, Maharajah, Torque, O'Brien, Ski Master, Ski Craft, Western Wood, On to O'Brien/EP, EP, Connelly, Jobe,Excel, Saucier, Hexcel, Chisnell, CG Great American, Tech-1, Bassett Racing, Medalist, HO, Kidder, D-3, Duvall, MasterCraft, Lapoint O'Brien, Goode, Radar, K-2 Experimental, O'Brien Elite, AM, Razor, Warp, Sans Rival, Reflex, and on and on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_MS Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 Whatever happened to the Warp? Are they still making skis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted May 19, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 19, 2012 @Horton Did not see your earlier post. Yes, the MC Pro was a very stiff ski. Graphite reinforced, I believe. Was built for an old school shortliner. He sold it to me when Lucky and Ricky built him an even stiffer Tech 1/Obrien hybrid, which is out in the garage. I gave the MC Pro to a local kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 19, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 19, 2012 @thager If super stiff yea it will last for ever. May be crap but will not break down. Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted May 19, 2012 Baller Share Posted May 19, 2012 Both are very heavy by todays standards, but I really liked how that Pro skied. The Tech skis like a barge. Lots of work! Would not be loved by todays skiers. We'll never know, but I think a MC Pro done in Carbon with todays cores would be very skiable even with ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 19, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 19, 2012 @thager I promise you that if you had the old MC remade today it would still suck. 1964 Mustang is seems cool but it is very crude by today's standards. Your MC is a 1967 Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray California Ski Ranch ☆ Connelly ☆ Denali ☆ Eden Lake ☆ Goode ☆ HO Syndicate ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline ☆ Pentalago ☆ Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes About Horton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerR Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 @dal I went from an origional CDX to a strada at @horton 's pushing and am having the best year of my life despite massive shoulder pain. Make the switch you won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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