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Water is warming up, anyone adjust fin with change?


Boody
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Tell ya what, man, the water is a little warmer meaning it's no longer frozen in Minnesota. Beyond that, I'm looking to get my legs under me, get in shape, have some sense of timing, keep the handle, keep my head up, not pull too hard, and make sure I don't come up with a pile of curled pond weed on me or the prop when I'm driving. OK, I'm done...

When the water ends up getting into the 70-80 degree range and I'm in a better groove...I'll get back to you : )

 

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water warmer = take out tip; at least that is what I have always been told. Various different ways to accomplish that. I have always been a fan of leaving the fin alone and moving the bindings back 1 hole or 1/4" depending on your set up.
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I recommend not touching your fin. Once you find a setting that works, leave it alone. In warmer water (water is slower so you need more speed), go down a 1/2-2 degrees in your wing angle and vise versa when winter comes and your in colder water (water is fast so you want to help burn some of the speed), just add a 1/2-2 degrees. Let me know how it goes if you try it.
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For the past few weeks, in 40-50 degree water, my ski felt awful. I took everyone's advice and didn't touch a thing, and now that the water is in the 60's, the ski feels awesome. Glad I didn't start messing with things.
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@Booty Just in case you think you've got a simple and definitive answer to your question, here is an excerpt from Chris Rossi's article, Cold Water Ski Setup Recommendations:

 

"Less Wing:

Wing pulls the tip of your ski in the water. By reducing wing angle, you will delay the initiation of the pre turn, thus adding necessary width. Try 1 degree reduction for every 20-degree (cooler) water change."

 

There you have it, reducing your wing angle will help your skiing whether the water is warming up OR cooling down. You can't miss!

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skied like crap last night- repeatedly got more tip bite than I could hold and took a nice rib shot coming across the wake. I kept asking the driver if the speed was set correctly- felt like it was about 2 mph slower. I tried to convince myself that that water warming up was causing me to get more bite in the turns than I'm used to but I think the reality is I just skied like crap.
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@Booty My comment above regarding conflicting advice, though togue-in-cheek, is kind of how it is. The only true answer is that everyone's ski, ski setup, and skiing technique is different, and a change that helps one skier may hinder the next. Moving the fin forward will tend to make the ski turn easier and ride with its tip higher. This might help lots of skiers as tempuraters climb, but if you don't think that's going to help you, you could be right.
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@6balls You have to go off of feel. I skied at 7 last summer and when I was skiing 7 this spring, I felt the ski wanted to head down course on my off side and it did not want to come back underneath me to finish the turn. I went to 7 1/2 and it fixed the problem. In short, you have to go by feel and you will learn what works for you by experimenting with it a bit.
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I also believe Rossi had an article a while back where he recommended a fore/aft adjustment for water temp. If I remember correctly a rearward move as the water warms up to lift the tail a bit?? Chris, please correct me if I have that backward. (Frequently happens and would explain a lot)
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Water went from 38 to 54 this week, I think most of you are over reacting with your fin settings! Are you skiing 38, 39 or 41? This early in the season I will be working on technique so I am ready for a tournament at the end of June.
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Aaarrrg!!! EVERY frickin' time anyone tries to have a conversation regarding ski tuning, someone has to jump in with how great they are without ever touching their fin and/or how dumb it is to mess with your setup.

 

I KNOW technique is the key to improvement. I KNOW I can ski in ice cold water or 95 degree water with the same settings. I KNOW that it is more the Indian than the arrows, etc. etc. etc. We all know that. Tell us something we don't know. And while you are at it explain why you paid so much for a ski with an adjustable fin that you never touch and why you wouldn't be caught dead skiing on a ski that doesn't have one.

 

Berating others for having this discussion based on their line length is BS too. Go ahead and wait until you can ski 39 off before starting to learn about ski tuning? Does this sound like a flawed plan to anyone else, or is it just me? Most, if not all, of the top skiers know how to tune their gear or depend on someone else who does. Do you honestly think they only learned that after they got to the top?

 

Furthermore, for some of us, figuring out the black art of ski tuning is an interesting, stimulating and rewarding part of the sport. Who are you to judge us since you likely have no grasp on this little-understood topic. You are certainly not alone, VERY few people do understand it. And if you do think you understand it, great, jump in, join the debate, help the new guys learn, help the hot shots test their understanding.

 

The more I learn about ski tuning, the less of it I do because I'm learning the difference between what I'm doing as a skier and what the ski is doing that is not helping. Knowledge helps me improve.

 

This forum is supposed to foster the free flow of ideas. PLEASE, would all of you who feel compelled to belittle others interested in furthering their knowledge take a long walk off the edge of the flat earth you live on.

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Haha! You got it. I actually HAD O.D.ed on espresso before this morning's rant! But not even decaf will change how tired I am with techno-ostriches thinking they hold the moral high ground on this subject. They're not wrong in their decision to leave their settings where they work. But their condemnation of fin fiddlers is presumptuous, and it's sad how often they succeed in squelching these interesting discussions.
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I'm not a techno-ostrich but I do occasionally check my settings especially after a bad set or two. I must have dropped the ski or someone stepped on it because my depth was shallow and the distance from tail had gotten smaller. I reset to the original settings. All feels good again.
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fins change. And freind had a bad set the other day and we check his fin # and they where off 10- 15 th in all directions. put it back to the # he had writen down and he ripped. so check and write down your # and check them to make sure your fin is where u think it is.

 

Deano

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I had a time when one of the screws in my fin block got boogered up. When I tightened the screws they all felt tight and secure but one of them wasn't securing the fin as it should so at the time I'd have a good 1st set and then by mid way on my 2nd set I wasn't able to hardly run a pass. I think it always a good idea to check your settings periodically. As for temp change, I'm with Mr Jones, move the fin back, shorten the length and go deeper followed by moving the boots back a hole. I was a little surprised with Rossi article when he said to move the fin forward as the water warms. Obviously he knows what he's talking about! That's what make the Black art of fin tweaking kind of fun. There's some interesting reading on the FM website about his theories. Some guys think Paul is off his rocker with some of his ideas, but I've learned a lot with experimenting with he and Schnitz' theories. There was a bunch of trial and error, but I had fun learning!

 

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With my MPD the fin program WAS Gold! With other skis, not as much. But overall, it was a great learning experience! In one season (using the fin program) I went from running 35 a hand full of times per year to running 35 every set and setting my practice pb at 4.5 @ 38. Wish I was skiing like that right now! Oh, well! I guess that's what makes this sport so addictive!
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I used the FM fin spreadsheet a few years back. I gave it up when I started plugging in water particulate numbers I got using the meter he sold me. The water for Predator Bay measured so hard that the FM model suggested a DFT of 3" beyond the tail of the ski. Hmmmm.....
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To me, and I am no expert, but I tinker probably too much, warmer water makes the tip of up and tail down, so if you liked how it felt in cooler water, you need to bring the tip down and tail up.

 

There are many ways to accomplish, and this is where only you can trial and error and determine what works for you.

 

I like to decrease depth a little or add length. When I moved the fin back, it slowed my onside turn down too much. Pay attention to the skis attitude in the water and that is what you adjust to.

 

Sure, you can bend your knees etc., to flatten the ski out, so should you ski with stiff legs in colder water?

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@Brent I actually spent some time trying to rework FM's underlying formulas while in communication with Paul, but it dead-ended. I hope he is taking another run at it because it's an interesting project.

 

Since then, I've actually taken a different tact on the whole thing. Rather than testing my way through a list of all the possible changes that might get what I want at one spot in the pass (i.e. to lower the ski's tip at the finish of a turn, a) increase FL b) decrease FD c) decrease FDT d) increase wing, e) move 1 or 2 bindings forward etc. etc.), I try to be clear on how each setup variable changes the ski's behavior throughout the pass. This way I can go straight to the one change that will net the most benefit with the fewest trade-offs elsewhere in the pass.

 

An interesting side effect of this approach is that I am developing a heightened awareness of how my ski behaves through each phase of a pass and I'm getting better at choosing whether to adjust my technique or to make a setup change. The downside is that my ski is working so well lately, I don't get to play with it much anymore!

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