Fin Setups and Individual Styles...

[Onside135]

I have been reading a lot of threads about binding/fin adjustments and settings throughout the discussion boards. I have noticed guys are frequently inquiring about how other folks and the pros setup their skis. It would seem to me that these measurements would be HIGHLY unique to individuals based on a number of variables (speed, line length, height/weight of skier, righty/lefty, individual style). Does it do any good to know how Rossi, Nate Smith, or even Horton setup a certain ski, unless you have a lot of the above variables in common with them?

 

Reason for asking: Last summer was my first in the course. I started on a 68” Obrien Mapple and progressed through 30/32/34/& 36, 15 off (I have no idea how this ski was setup). Once I started having success with 36, I picked up a used 67”D3 Z7/ST and just skied it with the fin setup as UPS delivered it from a Ski-It-Again seller (SIA rocks…as an aside!) I eventually ran a number of 36/22s on this ski before the season was over. Took the winter off, and prior to my first set this year, a highly knowledgeable skier glanced at my fin and was shocked at the depth (I think it was around 2.65”). We reset it to factory specs (6.920/2.515/.785), where I’ve been skiing at for the past month. The ski feels totally different. Some things seem better, but overall I don’t think I’m skiing as well as I should be, or was last summer (probably more than fin settings).

 

Bottom Line: Was the depth I was running last summer totally ridiculous? Should I stick with the factory settings I’ve used so far this summer, or meet in the middle somewhere? Lastly, am I correct in assuming that ski setup is fairly individualistic, and should only be accomplished based on recommendations from an instructor who has seen you ski? At my level, what would you guys recommend? Not necessarily looking for specific fin measurements, but just general thoughts about the topic. Thanks for your help…

 

[ForrestGump]

At your level, I'd keep it at the stock settings. That depth is WAY out of the range of where you'd want it. There's really only a few elite skiers that could take advantage of a fin that deep. Honestly, the difference might be in your head. I've had my coach change my fin drastically and I've never known. Then another time he told me he changed it and I swore it made everything worse. Only to find he hadn't changed a thing.

[Onside135]

@Brent...I wish I had written the numbers down. The only thing I remembered was the depth was about 2.65". I realize that getting this depth probably changes the other numbers too. Prior to resetting my fin this summer, I was of the mindset that I would never...ever...mess with it, but everyone at the lake that day said my depth was ridiculous, so I caved. I'm inclined to just leave it at factory now, and never adjust it again. Riggghhhtt....

 

@ShaneH...Considering your comments in another thread about Matt Brown's fin measurements, I was expecting this one about my depth! That comment about his fin and some other setup discussions actually encouraged me to start this thread. I agree to a certain extent that a lot of it is probably just in my head. Just last week I finished a set to find that my fin had a chunk removed and the whole front of the fin pulled out of the box. In hindsight, I remembered scraping the bottom of the lake on pull up, and it either occured then or progressively got worse with each pass. Either way, when I got in the boat after the set, the fin was barely in the ski anymore. Oddly enough, the set went very well! Who knows? Just ride...right?

[501Brandon]

Is it possible that a guy/gal could buy a ski (new or used) and not pay any attention to the fin/wing angles and go ski and actually improve and run some buoys? By this I mean can a skier learn to ski and adapt body position or style a little to the ski and not the other way around? Again I personally made it up to and ran -32 last year a couple times and my setup on the fin is out of the box and verified factory... My bindings placement is at the factory mid point (the boots themselves are the only things not centered and they are twisted a little funny)...

I am just curious as it appears making changes all the time can be a waste of water time and ski time especially if you travel to your site. I dont want to be guessing my change all the time further enhancing the internal mind game... I guess if you ran a relatively hard pass a dozen times in a row and the reaction of the ski was the same 8 of the 12 passes then an adjustment could be needed? I am curious and know the opinions vary widely on this topic but it sure seems like a guy can get wrapped around the axles a little to tight over fin and wing settings.

 

[nate93]

When I was skiing 36 back in the day I ran 2.65 all of the time. Fin settings are 100% skier specific. Remember factory settings are a starting point only.

 

Nate

[Horton]

after the wild years where everyone tweaked fin settings a lot.... I have settled down and generally stay very close to stock. I often run .005 shallower than stock and sometimes bindings slightly back.

 

Besides that if the factory #s do not work why would I kill myself to R&D the ski for them.

[Than_Bogan]

I have rarely found that deviating from factory actually ended up better for me. This has been true from topping out at 36/-15 to topping out at 34/-38 over 5 skis and 2 decades.

 

Fin adjustments can be fun to try though!

[Gloersen]

Welcome to the realm of fin adjustments & having more ?’s in your head during a set.

 

Like most advise, set it to stock, & then ski to the ski. When you progress to 13m lines then maybe…

 

But this assumes you have it setup properly; accurate, reproducible & comparatively similar binding/fin measurement technique is imperative.

 

For example that .785” DFT you sited as stock is using the caliper’s “needle” which, I suspect, is an uncommon technique. Using the caliper heads flat; DFT should be set to .745”; .040” difference on the Z7ST is huge (imo).

 

Next, on the Z7 ST, be sure the fin block is machined well. D3 makes a great product and has excellent customer service, however my Z7 ST (2010) had a fin block in which the recess for the rear DFT allen set screw was not adequately bored. Thus the fin clamp no matter how firmly tightened would not grasp the rear of the fin completely. Had it set to .785/2.515/6.912, skied lights out (my level), then after 4-6 sets or so would start tanking. So naturally reverted to fin adjustment (ill-advised) but in this situation kept finding the depth to be >2.52, some times >2.53....wtf? The wing effect kept pulling the rear of the fin down out of the block. Took about 2 months to unravel the fact that the fin block was inadequately bored for the DFT screw as described; you might want to check that on yours.

 

The most important aspect of fin tuning is grasping what changes in each parameter actually does regarding the ski’s performance. I believe @Horton has a link to this.

 

Fin tuning guru Steve Schnitzer’s link:

 

http://schnitzskis.com/fintuning.html

 

Have fun ripping!

 

[Onside135]

Fellas, thanks for all the recommendations and guidance. I appreciate it. I'm keeping the fin factory for now (bindings are slightly aft of factory). I'm sure 99% of my issues are skier related, versus the ski, but just wanted to learn what was out there about setup theory.

 

@Gloerson...great info! The highly knowledgeable skier I referenced previously is a D3 Demo guy, so he setup and guided me through exactly how to take the measurements with a set of calipers and properly set the fin up. Also, when I scraped the bottom and had to reset my fin, I found the guidance (and pictures) on the D3 website to be a good refresher.