Trakker Video Camera Vibration

[One_Ski]

I have the newest Trakker camera mount installed in my Nautique 196. I want HD videos, but vibration makes them unusable. My first attempt used my Sony CyberShot DSC HX9V, which vibrated so much the skier looks like a ghost. I emailed Michael Gonzales at Trailer; he said it was probably my camera, and referred me to a YouTube video called "CMOS vs CCD heavy vibration test." The video showed a Panasonic camera had much better vibration performance, so I bought one. I tried it out yesterday - its a little better, but still sucks. I've searched the Web for vibration solutions - no help. Can anybody recommend an HD video camera that records to memory (NOT HDD or tape) that works?

[travnews]

how was the water? I use mine only when the water is relatively good. If it's a choppy, the video sucks. Works flawless on glass. My only problem is if I crash with the handle under load, my camera goes blurry and won't refocus .The only way to fix it is to turn the camera off then on again. I use a Sanyo Dual Camera Xacti video camera. I seem to remember being to told to get a camera with a flash drive or maybe flash memory to help the vibration.

[Brian_M]

Unfortunately CCD cameras are almost becoming extinct. I know a lot of people have had great success with the FlipHD which doesn't make sense because it's a CMOS sensor (I believe).

 

I've used an Xacti but haven't got great results. Try using manual focus (there's only 3 or 5 settings in manual) to avoid the focusing issue. That way the camera won't be continually trying to focus as you're skiing/crashing.

 

I've had my eye on a JVC GY-HM100U or the newer JVC GY-HM150U for my business. They have CCD image sensors but are mucho $$$.

[Dirt]

Try taking a piece of rubber from an old binding and cutting it into a square to go under the camera. You will have to punch or drill a hole in it. Should absorb some vibration. You could try the same btween trakker and pylon. A bent prop or loose pylon can make the pylon vibrate too.

 

[One_Ski]

Water was like glass. Vibration gets bad when the engine reaches slalom rpm, and stays that way until I power down at the other end. Vibration in the boat is not abnormal, and there's no noticeable vibration in the pylon. I think the trakker vertical bracket hits some harmonic frequency that exaggerates movement at the camera. I'll try some rubber insulation and see if that dampens it. I read a few positive comments about Sanyo cameras, so I might try that. Thanks, and please send any other ideas/suggestions you can think of. I know other folks have had this problem, based on feedback from Trakker.

[Phil2360]

@One_Ski, I presume you mean the P4 Trakker?

 

I've made several different ones now. All have used the same Manfrotto Fluid head seen below

 

 

 

The one above worked well, but was too bulky.

 

The next one was like a P4. It was made from 80mm x 10mm aluminium. Fabricated into an "L" shaped bracked woth the Manfrotto head on the top.

It was absolutely hopeless. Vibrated like crazy. You could even give it a twang & it would vibrate at a low frequency.

 

So the next attempt was a huge overkill in an attempt to avoid the harmonic vibrations.

 

It is an "L" shapled bracked made from 4" x 1" mild steel. It weighs a ton, but is great. Still a work in progress/experiment, but is almost vibration free.

 

It's not very pretty at the moment, but it's working well & proved mass is needed to defeat the vibrations

 

 

 

Maybe we'll get around to finishing it off properly this winter.

 

So with your problem, I look to adding as much weight as possible to the top of the Trakker.

Maybe you can try some steel plate or lead under the top of it, or up the back of it.

 

Even if you have to tape it there to try it.

 

The additional weight will lower the harmonic frequency that it vibrates at.

 

Some rubber isolation between the pole & the Trackker will also help minimise the vibrations transferred to the camera via the mount.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 

[mac]

Check out this link/thread...http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/51140

 

I tried three different HD video cameras last summer...

 

1. Sony HDRCX160, Optical Steady Shot Image Stabilization, 16GB internal flash and a SDXC card slot: Wavy video results; also had to use manual vs auto focus to keep the skier in focus

2. Canon VIXIA HF M301, Dynamic SuperRange Optical Image Stabilization, no internal memory, has a SDXC card slot: Shaky video results; auto focus kept the skier in focus

3. JVC GZHM650BUS, Advanced Image Stabilizer, 8GB internal flash and a SDXC card slot: Video is perfect; auto focus also worked great

 

Here's a video using the JVC model on the P4 Trakker...hope this helps, mac

 

[wski1831]

I Have an older Trakker and have used a few cameras on it that worked fine. The first one was an old camera that used tape. The second was a cheap one with an internal memory it too worked well. We use the Flip cameras for filming trick at tournaments they work well also.

[Live2ski]

I had similar problrms with conventional video cameras ( and flip) but have been using the Kodak playsport to video every set for the last year (on the trakker P4) with no hitches or vibration probs in any conditions. (Malibu boats):

 

Cheap

Captures HD to sd card

Immediately upload able to iPad

Waterproof

Downside: screw connection is plastic so I made up a right angle bracket and use 3m dual lock on the front of the camera

skier is a bit far away below 28off

 

Video below is rough conditions ( the end may catch you out!):

 

 

[Brian_M]

Mac, that JVC looked great.

 

I bet if you put it on manual focus it would look amazing. You can see how crystal clear it is when you first get up before you start the pass. If you have it on manual focus, it will look like that while you're skiing as well. With auto focus, the camera is continually "seeking" and therefore blurs the picture the whole time it's moving.

 

That JVC looks like a winner for use with a Trakker.

 

This proves that it's not simply just an image sensor issue (CMOS vs CCD) because that JVC has a CMOS sensor. There's got to be something else that makes the vibration affect the video quality.

[Chef23]

@Live2ski that fall looked like it hurt.

[Live2ski]

Ibuprofen for the pain - postural dizzy spells for about a month!

Incidentally the Ski stayed on - strada double boots and plate.

[One_Ski]

Phil - These are impressive -thanks. I agree that more mass will fix the problem. I bolted a 5 lb. disk under my camera, and it didn't help. So weight isn't enough - it's bracket mass too. Mac - the video you sent shows exactly the results I want. Based on your email and Brian's comment (and to get my money's worth from my Trakker), I got an RMA to return my Panasonic camera, and ordered the JVC. It should arrive Wed, and I'll try it out. If my results match yours, I'll be happy. Thanks to WSki and Live2ski for your comments. I'd already tried a camera with a hard drive - waste of time. The HDD protection shut off the drive as soon as I powered up the boat. I was using an older cam with tape, but picture quality was too poor to be useful. Live2ski - that's a nice video for an inexpensive camera. Thanks; I'll keep it on my list. Chef23 is right about that fall - looks like one where they have to drag you back in the boat. I appreciate the help. I'll post a new comment next week, after the JVC arrives.

[Jim Neely]

@One_ski Are you sure it's vibration. I have a Kodak ZX5 playsport that picks up electrical noice when mounted on the trakker. I just sent it back to the maunfacturer.

[Phil2360]

@One_Ski, have you got some flex or rubber isolation between the pole & the bracket?

 

I found that even with the mass in the latest steel contraption, vibration can be transmitted from the pole

if it's mount too rigidly. There's isolation rubber between the pole & the bracket.

 

Incidently the L section alone weighs 6.5kg (about 14lbs) & that fluid head is another 1/2 kg.

 

Phil.

[mac]

@phhil2360, I tried rubber padding btwn the pylon and bracket and under the camera mount, but it did not resolve the shaky video results with the Sony and Cannon models I mentioned above...

 

 

[One_Ski]

JVC camera arrived today. I should be able to post some results by this weekend. I'll try it first with with metal-to-metal connections (as supplied by Trakker) and see how the video looks. I'll bring some rubber along to put between the clamp ring and vertical bracket, just in case.

[travnews]

My Trakker, the newest one, came with a bunch of plastic bushing to go between the trakker and the pylon. Use one of those before you go metal to metal. I think it came with a thin one.

 

I don't remember for sure if the plastic bushings are for tapered pylons only. So maybe they won't work for you.

[jhughes]

@One_Ski I wouldn't discount the boat as part of the problem. We all have varying levels of "smooth boat running" tolerance and it's easy to get used to some slight vibrations coming from the boat. There should be ZERO boat vibration if the boat is dialed in. Bare feet flat on the floor when you're driving at speed should feel zero vibration through the floor- that's one way to feel for it. Might want to also ensure that the U-bolts holding the pylon to the boat are tight, they can work loose over time. Just trying to cover all the bases here.

[dski]

Can't wait to hear your results on the JVC. I didn't have much success with a Canon HV20 and my Panasonic TM90 with the Trakker.

[Ed_Johnson]

Have been using an older style Tracker since the mid - nineties with different cameras, on several different boats, with Zero issues. Years a go modified it so the camera sits 10 inches taller, and extended the arm 2 feet to attach to a shock tube. I believe the older style Trackers with the coil springs work the best.

 

Currently use it on a 2011 CC 200 6.0 with a Sony HDR 1080 32 GB 12.0 Mega Pixels 12x Optical Zoom and GPS Mapping plus 3 way Shake Canceling Image Stabilization. Perfect HD picture that I playback on an 82" HD TV. Tracks great from 28 to 41 off. Use it at least 5 times a week.

[One_Ski]

I used the JVC GZ-HM650 yesterday evening, and the video was perfect. No evidence of vibration at all. I used my Trakker 4 bracket as-supplied (plastic spacer between the pylon and the clamp, metal-to-metal contact between the clamp and the vertical bracket). Nothing different than my original setup, except for the camera. This camera solved my video vibration problem.

 

My only remaining issue is that I move out of the picture frame at the apex of each turn - to fix this, I plan to bend the loop in the trakker arm to open it up, and put my shock tube through the opening.

 

To summarize this discussion, you can build a bracket that is more stable than a Trakker and avoid vibration-related problems. If you use a Trakker though, some boats (due to inherent vibration) and some HD cameras (due to their inability to handle vibration) won't work.

 

The JVC Everio GZ-HM650A worked best

 

Others have had good results with these cameras:

Kodak Playsport

Flip Video

Sony HDR 1080

 

The following cameras did not work well with the trakker :

Any camera with a hard drive

Canon HV20

Canon VIXIA HF M301

Kodak ZX5 Playsport

Panasonic HDC-TM80K

Panasonic TM90

Sony Cybershot DSC HX9V

Sony HDRCX160

Xacti

 

From my view, this problem is solved. Thanks for the help.

[Ed_Johnson]

I believe you will find that attaching the arm to a shock tube instead of the rope is much more accurate, even less vibration, and will help tracking at even the shortest line lengths.

[Wish]

Will second Ed.

[mac]

@ one ski, glad to hear the JVC met your expectations! Are you out of the frame on both sides of the course? I assume you were zoomed all the way out? I only had that issue on the 1,3, 5 side. To fix, I moved the back end of the camera to the right on the Trakker mount and that solved it. Will be interested to hear how your Trakker arm mod works out...

 

@ wish & ed, can you post a pic on how you are attaching the shock tube to the arm instead of the rope...I can't visulize it...may need more caffeine this morning! tks, mac

[Ed_Johnson]

Simple, three large tie wraps with the arm on the left side of the shock tube works really well. Adjust the camera angle on the mounting pad so video is even on both sides. My arm is 2.5 feet long, with a 30 degree downward bend at the mid-point.

[One_Ski]

Thanks Mac. I zoom in some, but leave some margin for error. The error is worse at 1,3,5, but if I rotate the camera, I'll lose some of the 2,4,6. Before I zoom back, I want to try the shock tube attachment to see if it helps-seems like it should. After seeing Ed's suggestion, I think I'll try the tie wrap approach first.