Nick Sullivan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 So, now that this boat has been around for season. What does everyone think, is the boat a world class tow boat, is the fit and finish good, does it drive as good or better than others? I've seen some pictures somewhere of a red Carbon Pro and the boat had a teak look to the floor and on the platform that made it look great. Has anyone seen this in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dirt Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 It is a great boat. It Drives and skis very nicely. The components all look to be very high quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I had the opportunity to drive / ski this boat in a several tournaments this summer. Pulled some deep short line (3@41) w/o issue. The skiers were very positive about the wakes/pull from 28mph to 41-off. I really like the simplicity of the design and layout. The fit and finish seems fine. Considering how utilitarian the design is, I can't imagine a lot of things falling off or coming loose. For me, I simply need a tractor to go up and back. I don't need a lot of options I will never use. And, the price is very competitive compared to the alternatives. An improved rudder is being added for 2012 (and can retrofit a 2011). I'll have a CP on my lake for 2012. I'll be in a better position to provide a long-term review this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 JD, When do you get yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 It will be here for my record tournaments the last weekend in Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 Sweet! Look forward to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller The_MS Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 I have skied and driven two of them. Both were awesome pulls and drove great. This is no Infinity, the boat is here to stay. Short line is great and the long line lower speed skiers were all smiles. With the PCM engine and solid build quality brought down from the Surf and wake boats, this boat will crack the big 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScarletArrow Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've skied and driven this quite a bit the summer (before my injury) IMHO... Good - wake short line lengths - wake w/o ballast for slower speeds & longer line lengths - "sloped" transom - large swim platform - factory bimini - trailer - styling / water lines - engine; plenty of power (PCM) - holeshot - flooring; yes it gets hot, but so does carpet and a simple splash of water solves the problem. - foot rest for driver Average - tracking (the boat seems very weight sensitive which seems to affect tracking. more weight = better tracking (worse wake); etc.) - storage (the boat is not trying to provide storage space, so it's not really fair to grade it) Bad - cockpit ergonomics (throttle in awkward position) - gauge display (obstructed by steering wheel) - gun sight (good idea, poor design) - seat height (a bit too high for anyone over 5' 11") - transmission is abrupt and loud when engaging into gear - hinges for engine cover (exterior mounts; I've smashed my toe several times) Here's a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBy8seHwhAk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 My next boat will almost certainly be a Carbon Pro, although I'm hoping to get at least one more season out of my '04 Nautique. If you don't need the "frills," I think the boat is hard to beat. I haven't heard anything negative about it from any serious slalomers. I especially like the smaller wakes for my kids to learn on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 For the most part, I agree w/ Scarlet's analysis. The cockpit ergonomics are somewhat subjective. I'm 6' 3" and didn't have a problem with sight lines. But, I've heard the same complaint about SN200's and I don't have that issue w/ mine. Having the ZO display in front of me as opposed to off-set and down to the right (SN200) is an improvement for me. I agree about the gunsight - not certain that it provides a quantifiable benefit. The ZF transmission is louder when engaging and when in reverse than the PCM I'm used to but that's a trait of that transmission. Always has been. But, the ZF is a bullet-proof product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted September 2, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted September 2, 2011 What do u think it costs for them to build one and then get it to the buyer plus warranty costs to them? Anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 I would think just the motor/trans and computer would cost $10K or more. Then the rest of the boat would maybe be 15 to 20K to finish. Add in the trailer, and profit needed to keep the doors open and the dealers profit and it looks like it puts your right at the 45K mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Scarlet, That must be a non cat motor. That thing sounds strong and throaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScarletArrow Posted September 2, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 2, 2011 @Sully it is non cat. There is a nice rumble to it...but nothing like the obnoxious '08 MC TT. I think it's just right to add a little testosterone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAJ0004 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I skied behind that boat on the lake in the video. It was a great boat to slalom behind. The lake is awesome too. I would like to trick behind it. I do 40% of my practice behind an 08 MC TT. It is very loud, but a good boat. I took a close look at the Carbon Pro while it was on the trailer. Looks like a pretty solid boat. I like that it is 2100 lbs. It is lighter than my 1994 Nautique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 One visual difference in 2012 is a single exhaust outlet (similar to Correct Crafts). Not certain why the change - perhaps the addition of cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Do you have your new boat? If so post some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Not yet - two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScarletArrow Posted September 5, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 5, 2011 DD - have you sold your boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Yes - my SN200 was sold several months ago - picking up around the 1st of October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bdecker Posted September 5, 2011 Members Share Posted September 5, 2011 What's the benefit of the new rudder? Drove one for our August tourney. Nice boat but the tracking required significantly more input for the same skiers I pulled 2 rounds earlier with a 200. It was a dealer boat so we couldn't tune the rudder at all. I suspect that might have helped a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 The new rudder is 1.25" deeper. From the factory, you have to grind the rudder somewhat to taste. 50-75lbs in the nose helps as well. The grinding of the rudder is somewhat similar to what is done to the MC197 - 3" down and 3" back from the top. Once tuned, the boat drives very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
454SS Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 so is this a worthy replacement for those who are looking for something more like a nautique 196 that everyone loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 From what I have heard it sounds better than a 196. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 We'll only have two boats for my September records - SN200 and Centurion CP. Each boat will pull a complete round each day. It will be interesting to hear the comments and compare the scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Pics of the 2012 version - single exhaust and deeper rudder. Working on getting the boat dialed in before my record tournaments this weekend. I've shaved the rudder a bit and put 100lbs. in the nose. Ward is my guinea pig for the next couple of evenings - his 39's are the best way to gauge how well a boat tracks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Boats is dialed in - skidawg seal of approval!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Boats is dialed in - skidawg seal of approval!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ran 32 0ff behind one at the Ski West tournament. The pull felt really hard compared to my MC but that is an excellent score for me. The women there all loved it. The trick wake was better than the Nautique 200 wake - but that's not saying much. Nowhere near a MC wake. Also nowhere near a Malibu trick wake (factor in the wedge and the fun and wakeboard help and Malibu rocks!). I loaded the boat with all the weights but the Centurion wake was still tiny. The table was bumpy but skiable - my toe pass actually felt really good. The worst trick feature was that a release would not fit on the pylon! Boat companies need to accept SOME input from trickers. I hope there is a Mastercraft at the tournaments I go to. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ran 32 0ff behind one at the Ski West tournament. The pull felt really hard compared to my MC but that is an excellent score for me. The women there all loved it. The trick wake was better than the Nautique 200 wake - but that's not saying much. Nowhere near a MC wake. Also nowhere near a Malibu trick wake (factor in the wedge and the fun and wakeboard help and Malibu rocks!). I loaded the boat with all the weights but the Centurion wake was still tiny. The table was bumpy but skiable - my toe pass actually felt really good. The worst trick feature was that a release would not fit on the pylon! Boat companies need to accept SOME input from trickers. I hope there is a Mastercraft at the tournaments I go to. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Eric - I'm curious that you found the boat "hard". Ward and I both determined that the boat gets off the skier quicker upon release in the preturn and waits until you are completely hooked up before hitting you. Much bigger throttle swings than my Nautique but again, only when the skier is in position to handle it. More similar to old=school hand driving. Yes, the wakes are fantasitic. Even with a full gas tank they are small. My SN200 would have a nice bump at 28-off w/ a full tank. I was curious about the trick wake. My daughter has not skied behind it yet. As for a release, we only use rope releases so the pylon works for us. In fact, I drove a lot of tricks at Regionals this year and I can recall only one skier using a mechanical release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Eric - I'm curious that you found the boat "hard". Ward and I both determined that the boat gets off the skier quicker upon release in the preturn and waits until you are completely hooked up before hitting you. Much bigger throttle swings than my Nautique but again, only when the skier is in position to handle it. More similar to old=school hand driving. Yes, the wakes are fantasitic. Even with a full gas tank they are small. My SN200 would have a nice bump at 28-off w/ a full tank. I was curious about the trick wake. My daughter has not skied behind it yet. As for a release, we only use rope releases so the pylon works for us. In fact, I drove a lot of tricks at Regionals this year and I can recall only one skier using a mechanical release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted September 21, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ok, I'm an idiot..... Rope release????? Gotta be an old school thing. Is it safe? Can someone that's pulled a michanical release be successful with this type and does anyone have a picture of one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted September 21, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ok, I'm an idiot..... Rope release????? Gotta be an old school thing. Is it safe? Can someone that's pulled a michanical release be successful with this type and does anyone have a picture of one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wish - a rope release is simply a piece of rope approx. 3 feet in length (piece of old slalom line with a take off loop on one end). The take-off loop is placed on the pylon just as in slalom. The other end is run thru the loop at the end of the trick rope, wrapped around the pylon once or twice and held by the pin person. The force required to hold the rope when the skier falls is greater than the pin person is capable of. Therefore, the rope is pulled from the pin-person's hand without the pin-person having the react. Mechanical releases can fail for a variety of reasons - a rope release is fool-proof. If no one else posts a picture, I will try and accomplish this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wish - a rope release is simply a piece of rope approx. 3 feet in length (piece of old slalom line with a take off loop on one end). The take-off loop is placed on the pylon just as in slalom. The other end is run thru the loop at the end of the trick rope, wrapped around the pylon once or twice and held by the pin person. The force required to hold the rope when the skier falls is greater than the pin person is capable of. Therefore, the rope is pulled from the pin-person's hand without the pin-person having the react. Mechanical releases can fail for a variety of reasons - a rope release is fool-proof. If no one else posts a picture, I will try and accomplish this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted September 21, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted September 21, 2011 @Director Darwin Thanks, much appreciated. Sounds so simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted September 21, 2011 Baller_ Share Posted September 21, 2011 @Director Darwin Thanks, much appreciated. Sounds so simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 The Masterline Robbins release works on a similar principle as a rope release. It is much easier for the operator to hold, releases more positively and is a more solid attachment to the pylon. For bigger skiers or tricks that pull really hard, a rope release needs to wrap around the pylon and does not release fast enough for me. I've seen a couple of nasty injuries from a rope release. For kids where you hold the rope it is great - plus you can cheat and pay out some rope to help them learn tricks. Note that it is cheating so don't move the rope in a tournament - spend some time on a Robbins to make sure they can do the trick. The main drawback to the Robbins release is the cost - a meter of rope is really cheap. A bad operator can hurt you with a Robbins or any release. I ski C3 in slalom so I like getting hammered. But with my inevitable form breaks, I need a bit of flexibility from the boat. The Centurion felt like it really hammered me. Round one I couldn't scramble to 6, round 2 I barely made it. With that said, lots of things have to be right to get me that far. No real complaints - I just like the feel of my MC better for slalom. And it's not close for tricks. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 The Masterline Robbins release works on a similar principle as a rope release. It is much easier for the operator to hold, releases more positively and is a more solid attachment to the pylon. For bigger skiers or tricks that pull really hard, a rope release needs to wrap around the pylon and does not release fast enough for me. I've seen a couple of nasty injuries from a rope release. For kids where you hold the rope it is great - plus you can cheat and pay out some rope to help them learn tricks. Note that it is cheating so don't move the rope in a tournament - spend some time on a Robbins to make sure they can do the trick. The main drawback to the Robbins release is the cost - a meter of rope is really cheap. A bad operator can hurt you with a Robbins or any release. I ski C3 in slalom so I like getting hammered. But with my inevitable form breaks, I need a bit of flexibility from the boat. The Centurion felt like it really hammered me. Round one I couldn't scramble to 6, round 2 I barely made it. With that said, lots of things have to be right to get me that far. No real complaints - I just like the feel of my MC better for slalom. And it's not close for tricks. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 My information has a really high chance of being biased, because it comes almost entirely from Dave Robbins (plus a little bit from his protege turned guru Kevin Jack). But I've heard tell of both the injuries and the cheating than Eric mentions, and I should add that at least one of the injuries from a rope release was to the person operating the release, as that rope can develop some serious speed as it winds off. Because of the potential to cheat, I wouldn't be totally shocked if the rope release is ultimately banned from some or all types of tournaments. (I have absolutely no information suggesting that; just seems like it might have to happen.) I've never tricked a pass in my life, but that Robbins release sure *looks* like some elegant design and engineering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 My information has a really high chance of being biased, because it comes almost entirely from Dave Robbins (plus a little bit from his protege turned guru Kevin Jack). But I've heard tell of both the injuries and the cheating than Eric mentions, and I should add that at least one of the injuries from a rope release was to the person operating the release, as that rope can develop some serious speed as it winds off. Because of the potential to cheat, I wouldn't be totally shocked if the rope release is ultimately banned from some or all types of tournaments. (I have absolutely no information suggesting that; just seems like it might have to happen.) I've never tricked a pass in my life, but that Robbins release sure *looks* like some elegant design and engineering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 C3! Wow, that *is* some hammering. And you're not exactly a two-biller in terms of weight either, unless I'm thinking of the wrong guy and/or you've been eating a lot of gold lately. I'm not sure it's legal to complain about hammering after asking for C3... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 C3! Wow, that *is* some hammering. And you're not exactly a two-biller in terms of weight either, unless I'm thinking of the wrong guy and/or you've been eating a lot of gold lately. I'm not sure it's legal to complain about hammering after asking for C3... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Back on subject - I have some pretty accomplished 3-eventers coming to my slalom only records this weekend (i.e. World Overall Champion Adam Sedlemajer and Martin Bartalsky) so I'll get some of those guys behind the CP and get some trick feedback from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Darwin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Back on subject - I have some pretty accomplished 3-eventers coming to my slalom only records this weekend (i.e. World Overall Champion Adam Sedlemajer and Martin Bartalsky) so I'll get some of those guys behind the CP and get some trick feedback from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted September 21, 2011 Administrators Share Posted September 21, 2011 As a skier who skis behind PP 1/2 the time I would take Carbon Pro over MC and CC. CP and Boo are my current "new" boats of choice. (Any 196 is better) Wakes? Are you kidding me? @eleeski I use one ZO setting for CC and MC - another for CP and Boo. Stupid that I have to do that but we live in a ZO world. (if I get a 6 liter, I have no idea - extra stupid for the sport) BABE’S ★ California Ski Ranch ★ Connelly ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ KD Skis MasterCraft ★ MasterLine ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Rodics Innovation Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted September 21, 2011 Administrators Share Posted September 21, 2011 As a skier who skis behind PP 1/2 the time I would take Carbon Pro over MC and CC. CP and Boo are my current "new" boats of choice. (Any 196 is better) Wakes? Are you kidding me? @eleeski I use one ZO setting for CC and MC - another for CP and Boo. Stupid that I have to do that but we live in a ZO world. (if I get a 6 liter, I have no idea - extra stupid for the sport) BABE’S ★ California Ski Ranch ★ Connelly ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ KD Skis MasterCraft ★ MasterLine ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Rodics Innovation Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 speaking of p pass v. zo! I skied the p pass for thefirst time in years last wknd. The pull is no where near as good for short line skiing as zo (never thought id say that). elee-hammered at c3. The zo only hammers you when you hammer it first :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted September 21, 2011 Baller Share Posted September 21, 2011 speaking of p pass v. zo! I skied the p pass for thefirst time in years last wknd. The pull is no where near as good for short line skiing as zo (never thought id say that). elee-hammered at c3. The zo only hammers you when you hammer it first :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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