35 off Gate

[skinut]

I have a question about the gate at 35 off. I have been told that you need to set your angle, but not pull your guts out like you can at 32 off and longer lines. I have felt this a few times but I am not sure that I am setting my angle like I should. Here's my dilemma, I pull out wide for the gates and I have started to turn in earlier(when the one ball and left hand gate line up) than previous passes and focus on slowing down the turn in. I am working on having the strongest pull directly behind the boat. The problem is that this seem counter intuitive to setting a good angle. As I slow down the turn in I don't feel the ski is getting the angle it needs. I am getting around one ball and some times two but I wonder if I have miss understood the theory of a slower gate turn in. Does it sound like I am approaching the gate the right way?

[bmiller3536]

@skinut

Are you a lefty or righty?

if you are a lefty you need more front foot pressure. Getting the nose of the ski in the water is the only way to build angle. Try standing up tall at the gates, make sure your hips are up, and when you want to turn in for the gate use your front foot to turn the ski in.

 

If you are a righty no clue

[jedgell]

I'm having the same issue with my gate, RFF. I've been trying to go softer at the gate, just establish the angle and hold it, stay on the handle. When I can get myself to do it, it works. My problem is that it's hard to resist the urge to pull too hard, then I'm flying into 1 ball and turn into a ton of slack. I've just dropped to 34, allowing me to get into 35 regularly, so I haven't had a lot of practice.

[6balls]

I don't think you should pull your guts out at 28 or 32 either. I use similar landmarks for turn in. FWIW, I'm pulling out w/the nose of the boat on the 55's. I try to keep my initial gaze down the buoy line, stand tall and keep very slight outbound pressure. I find at 35 I'm still at the 2,4,6 line or a squeak outside it. You don't want to be slowing down/sinking in prior to or at turn in but rather have speed there. If you slow down and start to sink in, you will start w/load, accelerate hard and get unloaded into 1 ball fast and narrow.

I do use the one ball and left gate, but find I if I get antsy and go early there will not be enough angle so be patient. If you start your turn in at the actual cross of 1 and left gate, the turn in will need to be a little quicker than you describe. By the time you set angle the one has gone well past the left gate. Set angle and hold.

You're next problem will be what to do with yourself so damned early at 2.

[Roger]

My guess is that you're not getting as wide on the boat as you think to begin with. A slow controlled turn-in at about one and a half boat lengths from the gate is what I do (this is just before the left gate/1 ball line up... remember that where these line up changes in relation to distance from the entry gates depending on how wide you get on the boat). I'm LLF, a RFF skier can get away with a little later turn in since it's your onside turn and a bit easier to establish. Have someone in the boat sitting behind the pylon make a note of where the line is on the hull when you pull out. Based on experience with various skiers here, I'll bet you'll find your not nearly as far up on the boat as you think...

[skinut]

How far up on the boat should I be in my pull out?

 

[ski6jones]

I'm LFF and working on 35, running it infrequently.

The turn in with speed has helped my gates the most.  With speed you can do a gradual turn in and get your angle set before the boat is all over you, then just hold position.

Be sure you're up over the middle of the ski when you start your turn in with the nose of the ski engaged  (as bmiller said), don't fall back to turn in.

I'm still working on turning in with more speed. My mind doesn't like it, but my ski does.

[Roger]

@skinut - the higher the better. Nate Smith said to me early this year "I have to be as far up on the boat in the glide as I want to be at the one ball or else I have to pull long to get there." If you boat judge as much as I do, you start to see a pattern where the better skiers are pulling up much wider on the boat than everyone else. One handed gate skiers do not have to (and shouldn't) come up as far since they're carrying speed through their turn-in where we (two handed gate) are generating our speed. If your are two handed and not getting far enough up on the boat, what will happen is that during your turn-in, the rope will come tight too soon and you will get speed without the cast-out you need for a slow controlled one ball. When Andy Mapple ran 41 off here at Okeeheelee in 2000, I was in the boat and he went in front of the pylon before turning in...

 

[skinut]

I have uploaded some videos of my skiing. 22 off through 35 off. I have several examples of my typical 35 off attempts. Any suggestions on what I can change to improve my skiing would be greatly appreciated.

 

22 off

 

28 off

 

32 off

 

35 off

 

35 off

[tsixam]

Nice skiing Skinut! I think it is generally good but I have a few pointers.

 

In my opinion, the gate is good enough to run a 35-pass. But I think it would be better to easy up a little and make sure you was a bit more up on the ski, standing tall with centre of mass balanced over the ski.

 

I think the main problem is in the preturn. If you look at your arms, when you change edge, they are straight and pointing to the boat. Read this for a good explanation about handle control. http://www.ballofspray.com/tech-articles/87-what-the-heck-is-handle-control

 

Finally, try to keep your head and shoulders up during the whole process and let your hips turn in to the handle. It will help you to control the turn and the speed to the next ball, especially if you run ZO.

 

Tsixam

 

[6balls]

Agree w/Tsix. The gate is fine.

Inside shoulder on the one ball pre-turn getting too deep, then over-rotation occurs with stall of the ski and loss of cross course angle. A little more upright in pre-turn and shoulders more level. Getting low like that in pre-turn isn't causing load right then, but it is setting you up for load...I have been calling it getting "pre-loaded".

A couple of other ideas as food for thought. First is relax, don't get amped about 35. Second you may try a slightly higher reach than before, more down the buoy line to keep that shoulder up. Don't "pose"...keep the handle long then out/back just a squeak higher than before. Keep us posted and bust that blue line.

[GaryWilkinson]

In my Very humble opinion, (I'm working 32 off off and have only ever done a few at 35) you are bending slightly forward before the buoy and your hips are creeping backward. This position retains too much speed by having not enough ski in the water on the "rail" thus engaging the wing fin and increasing the drag.

 

Have a look at the thread I started a week ago and some of its content, specifically on pre-ball position. And especially the pictures of me vs Andy and how much ski is in the water before the ball at the same line length, (28off). The water is for me, at the middle of my front foot boot, whereas in all the pics I've seen of Andy Terry Winter, Chris Parrish etc, the water is a foot in front of the toes!

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum/#/discussion/3862/how-to-prevent-slack-keep-tip-down-achieve-strong-position-help

 

You want to get taller before the buoy, (stacked or aligned) and be much more on that inside edge engaging more of the the rocker of the ski using more of its length.

 

I may also mention that your cut and line of travel (l.o.t.) was better, more aggressive (with sharper angle) at the longer line lengths than at 35. Bad angle, (narrow counter cut for 1 ball) and speed result in a narrow l.o.t. in the course, not enough speed to stand tall and get on that inside edge with confidence.

[skinut]

Thanks for all the comments.

[Wish]

Id focus on one thing. Probably seems counter intuitive (pun intended) and I'm not suggesting Marcus Brown extreme but your lack of counter rotation is IMHO not allowing the ski to finish. It stalls. Causing all sorts of other issues. To see this. Simply look at your glide for the gate. When you let go with the outside arm, you counter rotate smoothly and consistently and to the right degree throughout all the line lengths. Well done I might add. The other things done well is your tall, stacked, eyes level to horizon, how smoothly that arm comes back to the handle and picking up the boat/load in just the right spot. Now contrast that when in the course especially 1,3,4. As the line shortens, your counter rotation is illuminated by 35 off (quite a bit by 32) Your free arm swings away (in attempt to counter) but your shoulders stay closed and almost facing cross course. Instead of swinging your hand/straight arm behind your butt to counter, try keeping your free hand up and close to your hip and push that free elbow behind your butt. Which is exactly what you do (counter with shoulders facing down course) in the glide for the gates EVERY time and it works everytime no matter what line length. I'd start attempting this at 1,3,5. I have a feeling 2,4,6 will correct itself as you will have a much better finish and more angle into 2,4,6.