Mastercraft wake

[Than_Bogan]

So just a few weeks ago, I was stating right here on this forum that I can't even tell what boat I'm behind at 28/32/25/38 (and once at 39!) at 34mph. Then I went to Regionals and basically skied like a Donkey (although a lot of others did, too, and I finished 4th). Among many weird things about this round, I was completely shocked that the Mastercraft wake felt hard as a rock at 28 and still pretty dang hard at 32. It was still just barely a factor even at 35. (I didn't get to 38, so no info there.)

 

Since my skiing was so bad, maybe I was just completely off edge when hitting it? Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Was there something wrong with this specific boat, perhaps? (One thing it reminded me of was skiing behind the previous generation Nautique with the lever in the Trick position.)

[Taperflex]

There were problems with the Mastercrafts at the Southern Regionals. Men 4 jumpers were not getting any pull from the wake to the jump, and the scores reflected it. We never heard the engine kick in like we did with the Malibu and Nautique. The next day when jump started, they had to change to a Malibu to get good times. These were two different Mastercrafts, so it obviously was not just a problem unique to one boat. No one seemed to know what the problem was.

 

 

[ForrestGump]

The mastercrafts this year have a rock hard 22 and 28 off wake. It's not big, just stiff as a concrete block. I thought the 2010 197 had a nice, soft wake so I haven't a clue what they did different for 11. But all three of the 197 promos in our area are like that. One is absolutely terrible to ski behind. The other 2 are liveable. My ski partner skied 2 at 41 off at 36mph at our regionals and when he skied behind the better of the mastercrafts, even he complained about the wake. To simulate the MC wake, we skied with the hydrogate up(trick mode) with our 200.

[sunperch]

The ones I really feel sorry for are the juniors. Watching B1 and G1 climb the mountain to get to the next bouy is painful. The wake behind the Mastercraft is HUGE at the slower speeds. I think that a wake that big is dangerous, someone's kid is going to get hurt going OTF. I try to tell my kids that if they stay on edge and make sure they pull through both wakes they will be fine, but not sure if they can tell that I am lying.

[animal]

I have heard some complaints about this year's boat with the bigger engine.

[Than_Bogan]

I could swear I've skied behind an '11 Mastercraft that was totally fine. That's why I was so surprised.

 

If Shane's comments are accurate, I find it very bizarre that it seems there is a lot of variation within the model. This one seemed to be a "bad" one, although I really must again emphasize that I was skiing terribly, so my experience should be taken with appropriate grains of salt. Indeed, Scott Bellefueille (sp?) put up a lifetime best behind it. (I think he was the only one even remotely close to his average, though.)

[walleye]

Scores are down behind the MC, someone will get hurt or possible death. This is suppose to be fun and made safe as possible. Why force this boat on people when the 200 could be used. Sponsor money is not that important when you see someone have a life long injury because a manufacture produced a dog and everyone closed there eyes for the sake of money. MC needs to take a back seat in slalom and jump till they can bring something to the table that IS SAFE. Not sure of the hardness @ 36mph but the wake is much smaller. This boat boat by NO MEANS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PULL JUNIORS. Every where I go there is nothing but bad things happening and being said about this boat. I usually take a back seat on people having issues with boats, zo but this boat is a killer and it is targeting our juniors and something needs to be done before nationals. Look at the boat draw who it is going to pull B1 & G1 @ nationals. I would like to see the Ross girl set a record but will not happen behind the MC and you will see OTF's behind this boat for no apparent reason.

[ForrestGump]

We actually lobbied our chief driver for a certain boat to NOT be used for slalom, which is how we got the best of the MC's at regionals for slalom. And the best of them has a wake similar to the 200 with the hydrogate up in trick mode.

[bxroads]

Though I'm a greenhorn skier, I can speak from experience regarding the MC EVO hull and slower speeds. My first boat ever was a 1997 MC 190 which I learned to ski behind, with a butter smooth wake at the reduced speeds. I upgraded (???) to a 2008 MC 190 and it about killed me at anything below 34. It was terrible. I quickly moved on to a 2004 196 with Stargazer which has to be THE slalom boat of all time.

[LeonL]

I skied behind a MC at regionals and it was fine. However the chief driver picked which MC to use for slalom. One on site had a reputation as having a horrible rooster tail/wake. I had an opportunity to get a practice set with the "bad" MC and it was pretty hard at 22, but 28 and beyond was OK. I don't know it the hull is different due to inconsistent molds, or the wake is due to the fact that the "bad" one has the Ilmore engine and may be propped differently.

[Jody_Seal]

It is funny that someone mentioned the MC pulling jump at the southern regionals. Yes both boats got pulled from pulling jump because boat one had a fluke in the ZO programing. This is not uncommon with the latest ZO program for the MC. Problem is uncontrollable third segment, screams out fast even on return to baseline. The second MC had an overheat problem along with the ZO Fluke!

I have been witness to two very fine Driving and skiing MasterCrafts this year and even have a good (for me) score behind one of them. Have also experiance with two as mentioned in the above posts. thought one of them was not so good because of the roll bars and the other well we will leave it at that, it pulls lots of tricks!

 

[ForrestGump]

Jody, in our case the one with the really bad wake has no tower or ballast tanks, only a bimini, and the Indmar. The better of the MC's has the tower and ballast and Indmar. The boat with the Ilmore seems to have a similar wake to the good INdmar boat. Go figure. I swear after looking at them, there's different hook in the hull between the 3 in Houston.

 

It's odd, because this is how the MC's felt to me in 2008 and 2009. And then in 2010 they were all butter soft and I set my PB behind it. Now we're back to a concrete wake.

[thompjs]

Lots of problems with ZO jump right now.

 

I believe RTB is broken on all boats. MC has problems with huge surges in 2nd segment with some skiers.

 

To get correct times they had to play with power factors and letters to get "L" times.

[walleye]

Sounds to me like there are some good MC's out there, I have just not seen one yet. I have sent several e-mails out AWSA and Master craft. The decision now lays in the chief driver @ Nationals. Boat draw has the MC pulling division IC the most problem are slalom G-1, G-2, M-6 Jump G-2, W-5, M-6 thru 11. I hope others express there concerns to people making decisions so we can have safe as possible fun Nationals.

[Robbie]

very dissappointed to drive 8 hours to regls and have to ski behind a boat everyone knew was having problems. i cut early and had the rope pulled out of my hands... if the boat isn't working right, here's a thought, get another boat...

[evolski]

I heard there were 2 different size struts on the 2011 MC - that holds the prop in position. The newer 11 has a larger strut which, from what I heard effects the wake pretty significantly. No first hand experience, just dock talk with someone that bought a good 2011.

[Old MS Accout]

Did the boat have added weight in the bow to assist the driver? Added weight to the nose of the MC makes the wakes rock hard a 28 and 32.

 

[Wolfeie]

I own an 2004 X7 (197) with PP. I have been extremely happy with this boat but was looking to upgrade to ZO. I took a ride behind a 2010 197TT promo boat and was very surprised at the wake at 22 & 28. It was much bigger and harder than my present boat. I can see a problem with pulling skiers just learning to run the course at lower speeds. It is making me re-think my decision to upgrade to a 197TT

[jaredH20]

in our case its the prop, our dam has the 2011 197tt, wake was very hard at first, now that they have changed the prop its much better

[Bdecker]

I have skied behind 2011's with the Ilmor and MCX and had no issues that I could blame on the boat... Admittedly, I have an 05 TT as my boat so perhaps I'm used to it, but I don't feel a significant difference. Neither boat has a tower or extra weight in the nose. After watching a pylon break in one of the other "big 3" with <20 hours on it, I would still have MC on my shopping list.

[ral]

"Scores are down behind the MC, someone will get hurt or possible death. "

 

Really?

[ktm300]

My 70lb 10 y.o. daughter skis the same behind an 11 MC 197 and a CC 196. In fact, she skis a little better behind the MC although that may not be a fair comparison as the 196 and 197 are on different lakes. Put the rope on 15 off, slow the boat to 30.4, run a pass and report back on the size of the wake. "possible death" ?????

[Jody_Seal]

Wow!! Good Thing a lot of us survived the pre 1982 Nautiques and supreme's. Now those were wakes to die for!!! LOL!!!!

Remember the Marlin Magnum skier???

 

Robbie Sorry you did not get the pull you were expecting. It is also hard on the chief driver as no one wants to pull a boat out of the competition as it does not fare well for all involved, especially in the regionals and nationals where skiers have gone out of their way to train behind the product that will pull them in the competition. at some degree though one must remember that it was the same for all in the event, good or bad! We all hope your next tournament if it is nationals or whatever you get the pull you are expecting.

On another note I recieved word that Their will be a 6 liter MC at the nationals to pull the jump events that they have drawn. Word is that it is a very reliable and good boat.

Good luck to all!

[Roger]

@MS - "Did the boat have added weight in the bow to assist the driver? Added weight to the nose of the MC makes the wakes rock hard a 28 and 32. "

 

MS, our experience here at Okeeheelee has been the opposite. The wakes are improved (along with tracking ability) by adding approx 50lbs in the nose of the MC. We also believe the boat handles better with that weight and a 3 person crew rather than 2. In our May record, there were numerous PBs by the girls and boys with these boats, Karina Nowlan ran 1@41 off behind one of them and I ran only a half buoy difference between the MC and SN200 (and didn't notice anything hard about the MC wake).

[Bdecker]

@ scottchipman- I'd rather not say... but it looked like they just fiberglassed it to the floor. The 06 had a plate there so maybe they just "forgot" on this particular 2011. Haven't seen any other 2011's and they make it hard to check with a panel between the motor and pylon base.

[Old MS Accout]

Roger,

I have been behind 2 MCs (09/10) that had 100lbs up front. The 28 wake was not a problem to ski with but it was rock hard. 32 a bit better but still hard. 35-38-39 were not noticed. Lots of skiers were complaining. Each time the weight was removed and the wakes were awesome.

The long line and slow speed wakes on the MC suck with or without weight in the nose. There may have been PBs set behind them but they are still big. There are lots of posters on this board that will tell you they are big at slow speed 15 off. I cannot verify that due to never skiing behind the MC at 15 off. My last 3 PBs have all been set behind the MC and it skies great.

 

[Roger]

MS,

We have never put 100lbs up front, so I can't speak to what that might do to the wakes (or handling).

[Skihack]

Why would you not get to pick the boat for slalom or jump as you do for tricks? This can be done. But if you are top seed and your boat pulls the first group of skiers then you ski last for that group. Or is there any better idea? In all fairness, I have seen some bad promo SN200's although it is still my choice. And I have seen one MC promo this year that has soft wakes and a softer ZO pull. It wasn't going to be at the SR so we didn't go. I kind of figured things weren't going to go well, but I had no idea it would be this bad.

[RichardDoane]

my 2011 MC 197 WTT with the 6.0 Ilmor has been a great machine, no problems with Jump or Slalom, just with whiners who need to complain about something. Keep your ski on edge and out in front of you where it belongs, and worry about more important things like handle control and "vision up". It's definitely got a larger wake for the Jr. skiers, or slow speeders, but it's funny how the boys and girls don't say a word, it's the little league parents that do.

[Bdecker]

skimech,

That would be the end of tournament skiing for me! Can you imagine how long a tournament would take if you had to have multiple boat crew changes to accomodate everyone's pick. A small 2 round slalom takes most of the day as it is. Everyone in the same class is typically on the same boat, fair enough for me. It's a variable just like wind and water temp in my opinion.

[Old MS Accout]

Mrs.MS wants to buy a MC just to practice behind. She wants to be ready when she gets it at a tourney.

The 2010 Promo MC was the best looking boat of any of the big 3.

[jipster43]

I skied behind Jody Fisher's 2011 TT /w mini tower last August. The wake was perfectly fine at 26mph 15' off. I'm assuming that any unfavorable wake characteristics could be mellowed with a prop change, but c'mon! All of these boats ski amazing. I weigh 135, ski at 26-30mph and have been pulled by all of the big 3. The 200 was certainly the best, but the LXi and 197 weren't far behind.

 

JP :)

[jipster43]

If you're really having a problem with yer Mastercraft, I'm pretty sure there's someone here who can drill a hole in it for you.

 

JP :)

[h2oski]

I'm a whiner and ski at 15 & 22 off. The 11 Mastercraft we get in our tournaments is way worse than the Malibu or CC. The last time I skied behind one, there were 4 skiers in my class all starting at either 15 or 22 off, the best score was 5 in the round with the MC. I lost a contact lens and had a headache for two days after I went OTF between the 5 & 6 ball.

Terry

[ForrestGump]

RD, All I know is that when a skier who ran 2 at 41 off at 36mph and Big Dawg skiers alike say that certain boats have a rock hard wake, there is some credence to it. Like I said, I've also skied behind some MC's that were terrific. But there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. Are the boats propped differently? Weighted differently? I don't know. But I'd like to find out.

[Roger]

One of the Mastercraft's we use initially had a very hard wake. The owner (on recommendation from the other promo owner in the area) changed to the other approved prop and the hard wake issue disappeared. Maybe that's what's going on here.

[skibug]

Roger, what is the other approved prop. I have an 09 MC 197 TT, wake sucks comparitively speaking, boat pulls like a frieght train. I am currently running an OJ 438. Is there another that will soften the wake and give a slightly softer pull?

[Roger]

Assuming you have the 5.7, they are:

 

Indmar MCX (5.7L)/1.26:1/1.25:1 - OJ, 4, 13.7 x 15 Nibral

Ilmor MV8 (5.7L)/1.26:1/1.25:1 - OJ, 4, 13 x 14.5 Nibral

 

Either prop may be used with either engine. I don't know what OJ's numbers are for those props, but should be easy enough to find out. If you like, I'll ask the promo owner exactly which prop he installed.

 

NOTE: the above approved props information is listed for the 2011 boat. I have no idea if the 09 boat had multiple prop options or not.

 

[skibug]

I have the 13.7 x 15 on the 09; that is the OJ 438; so was it the 13 x 14.5 that was the better of the two; I sure hope so......

[Shortenit]

Scott, I won't be shy, facts are facts. A 2011 Malibu LXi at the Eastern Regionals finished pulling tricks and while removing the trick release to get ready for slalom, the pylon came up out of the floor. Boat was pulled and another Mailibu was used. Boat currently being looked at by a terrific dealer to investigate.

So the pylon didn't "break" in one sense of the word, like crack or bend. Obviously still not a good thing, but it is a machine and stuff happens. I suspect it wouldn't have pulled out from a skier but certainly glad it we didn't find that out. I rode in it, changed line lengths etc. and skied behind it a few weeks earlier and it seemed fine, nice boat. Hopefully just an isolated incident or error. Not a Malibu fan myself, but have no doubt it will be made right by Malibu.

[Horton]

M3 skied BAD at western regionals and were behind MC but .... can't blame the boat. I mean I want to but.... lets blame MS

[Horton]

What I mean to say is the wakes were not the issue.

[Horton]

What does suck, that you guys are not really saying, is that when you change boats, any brand and then change props or what ever the ZO acts different. That is not boat mfrs fault.

[TeamWally]

Once again, Horton speaks the truth. When will we see the rumored RPM ZO module to put an end to the beatings?

[Horton]

If you are taking bets, will put $50 on NEVER

[Dirt]

I have skied behind 200s and MC in tournaments and prefer the MC. The 28 off 34 mph on the 200 is bad. Big wide bump. I think it is a ZO problem. Just go back to PP Classic and end the pain.

[Ali]

@Bdecker, @scotchipman The pylon getting pulled out of the boat was purely down to the strength of the skier. Honest.

 

cheers

Ali

[Old MS Accout]

28 off behind the 200 that has the 422 prop is much better. Stock prop on the 200 sucks at -28.

[ForrestGump]

The 1868 on the 200 is definitely a little stiffer than with the 422.

[Nick Sullivan]

I ski at 36 mph behind a 2011 LXi and my WTT 197. I cannot tell a difference between the two wakes at 15 or 22 off. I do feel a slight dip at 28 but it definetly is not hard at 28. Hell there is pretty much nothing there at 28 off.

 

Sounds like a bunch of Nancy's looking for something to complain about. I especially can't believe a guy that is getting into 38 off is complaining about the wakes.