Class C tourney skiers starting at less than max speed

[lkb]

I have heard that several years back if you started at less than your max speed you had to spin until you completed a pass at max speed. Only then would the boat set you down at the end of the lake. My questions are is this still legal, and if so does anybody Actually still do it? Just wondering because it takes so long for somebody to run six passes at those really low speeds. The skiers I'm talking about are at longline.

[thager]

I sometimes start at -28 @ 32mph. They set you down in the end to rest and let the water calm down before you come back at 34 mph, my max old timer speed.

[LeonL]

What you describe was once the case. Actually most tournaments that ran that format usually stopped the boat after 2 passes (at last the ones that I observed) Current AWSA rules state that "the boat shall be stopped at each end, unless the skier requests at the starting dock to continue at his own risk."  (Rule 10.1)  I don't know what you're referring to when you specifically mention "six passes".  You obviously don't have to start at some "really slow speed."

 

[Thomas Wayne]

A few decades ago I was at a tournament on a small private lake in western Oregon, and Terry Goodman opted to start his run at the longest line and slowest speed - which, in those days, was a full 75-foot rope at 30 mph.  He ran back-to-back passes through 36 mph (4 passes), and then they stopped & shortened the rope.  He finished somewhere in -35', and if I remember correctly, won his group.

Everyone was duly impressed -  except Terry's dad, who was kinda pissed...

TW

[lkb]

LeonL, I'm looking at it from a tournament director's point of view. There is a kid we pull that starts at 15.5 mph longline and he usually skis 6 passes. It really slows a tournament down.

[boarditup]

I don't know how to say this on the fourm without sounding glib, but most people here know me and know where I am coming from...

Rejoice that you have a young skier starting out and "slowing down" the tournament!  In this allegedly dying sport, we need new blood.  At my tournaments, skiers who are not beyond an opening pass above max speed are guananteed 4-passes.  Yeah, it runs slower, but they get to ski - and that is what they come for.

My advice - accomodate the novice skiers.  Run an am/pm day where there are two tournaments in the same day so the particpants do not have a whole day, but a half day invested. It is much more Mom and family friendly.

If we don't get more kids and families involved - especially when the kids are 5-10 years old - we will fail to reproduce and die out.  History is littered with closed membership societies that died out.  Hopefully we will not be one of them.

Karl DeLooff

[ScarletArrow]

Right on Karl. The Buckeye Buoy Tour is Class C and has a novice rule that guarantees 4 passes for someone who has never made the course.

[ForrestGump]

LKB, for one child it won't slow the tournament down much. We usually have 2 kids that start at 15 and get into 21. We also have 2 that start at 24 and get to 32. Those 4 skiers take about 30 minutes to complete and we usually ski them at the very beginning of the first group of skiers. 

[lkb]

Karl, Scarlet, Shane, those sentiments were in the back of my mind when I made the original post. I was mainly just curious as to how others were handling this. I will continue to set him down at each end. Thanks for the feedback.

[Boody]

I am with Karl 100%.  We host 4 tournaments a year and always had a novice division with a guaranteed 4 passes, and trophies.  AWSA will provide trophies for free, its the ticket.

[Chef23]

I love the idea of giving the novice skiers 4 passes. I have two kids an 11 year old and a 12 year old. The 11 year old is running into 32 mph at 15 off and competing in AWSA tournaments. He could be one of those kids because he starts at 24.9 and runs 26, 28 and hopefully 30 (25% of the time). My 12 year old hasn't been as into it and doesn't ski the AWSA tournaments. When we do a novice event they get 2 passes. My 12 year old is a little intimidated but will ski INT events where there are more people that don't run full passes.

 

It does take time to run the kids but they are the future of the sport.

[Drago]

Scary, "it really slows the tournament down"....

[lkb]

Drago,

I don't understand the meaning of your post. Please explain.

Thanks.

[LeonL]

I see most of the posters mentioning 4 passes.  I agree that 6 is a bit much.  I wholehearted support new blood and kids getting into the sport, but I really don't see the need to run 6 passes either.  As one who puts on tournaments as well, I understand the need for some level of expediency.  Those who do not do tournament director duties may not understand that if your tournaments run forever into the night people won't come back.  By the rules you may limit passes to no less than 4, but you can limit them to 4.

[lkb]

Drago,

If you are implying that I want to rush people when they ski one of my tourneys you are greatly mistaken. I want my tourney attendees to have their best ski experience ever. When people ski good at my place it really makes me happy. It's like LeonL just said, moving things along is in the best interest of all at a tournament too.

[boarditup]

We must remember that waterskiing is entertainment!  If it drags on and on, is grossly unfair, incomprehensible, or serious it ceases to be fun entertainment for most people.  It takes a good plan to make a tournament work.  This year, I am going to test a tournament just for kids - and keep it low-key on the stress level and high on the patience and coaching factor.  Every organizer must respond to the local culture.  If there are a bunch of 40-60 something men with 20-30 years of tournament experience that ski together all the time, that is one thing.  Families with kids mixing with the super serious skiers is another thing.  We need to respond to the culture and make it work.

[lkb]

Boarditup, those are good ideas. Let us know how the kids' tournament goes.

[lakeaustinskier]

I completely understand how some people might think that small kids drag tournaments out longer than they should be.  BUT as the parent of a 7 and 10 year old boy and a 6 year old girl..........you gotta do it to grow the sport.  My kids see other kids competing and this really seems to motivate them.

Also, I don't know about you guys but as the parent of small kids I simply cannot attend tournaments w/o my kids also competing.  In other words, I can't be away from the family just to attend a tournament.  I did not ski tournaments for several years since I had really young kids and now I can.

We've had success with smaller "mini" tournaments where you limit your tournament entries to make it a smaller tournament and make it go faster. 

[Drago]

True, that is what I was implying. When I drive kids and they run mega passes I have to remind myself that, A] I must be giving them a good pull, B] Isn't it cool they can ski for so long--I wish I  had that energy,  C] kids can literally improve by 2 passes a set, but they don't change easily in their tactics, and D]I've skied a lot in my life and I'm a "serious skier", but I'll get my turn. We should help and encourage them and if a couple kids ski 6 passes, so be it. If you are a respected coaching-type, encourage them to start at a higher speed so they have more energy to work past their current PB.

I am not implying you are an arse or anything, I don't even know you. It's always difficult to hear someone's tone through a computer. 

[JohnN]

INT limited to 4 passes when it was around here, and that's one of the things I didn't like about the format. 

As the father of a couple of kids, I want to say thanks to the tournament workers and competitors who let the kids run their passes and foster a sense of fun and accomplishment.  Even when it was like watching paint dry :-).  Now the kids have been at it a few years and still go to the tournaments and jump in the water at 7:30, letting us old guys ski when it warms up.  They still run 4-6 passes, though, in many of the tournaments, and they do start a little faster now.  The problem with limiting kids is they can get a different boat, wake up feeling good, whatever, and pick up a full pass!  Saturday my older boy ran a pass he'd never run in practice or a tourney (and it was his 4th pass).  Upped his PB by 6 buoys, practice or tourn.  I guess that's the joy of being young. Should they have dropped him?  

As a driver and a judge, personally I love it when people young or old run a lot of passes.  If we had 100+ skiers it may be an issue, but lately the tournaments end pretty early.  Moving the tournaments along is vital to a smooth running tourney, but to me that means each and every competitor gets the same, quality opportunity to perform their best, and to have such a good experience that they want to keep coming back. 

my .02,

John 

 

[JohnN]

ps - I've seen it, and to have Drago, a very serious skier,  give the kids that respect really does make an impression on them and spurs them on. 

 

[RichardDoane]

When we run a Novice group during a tournament, if the skier runs a full pass on their 4th, I like to either speed them up, or shorten, and then give them a shot at a 5th pass. The Novice is the most important group IMO.

[lkb]

Thanks. This discussion helped me see that the little guy's set is just as important as everyone else's. Even though in his case I am pretty sure he is just as happy swimming and throwing mud pies at his little brother as he is skiing.