Powervest in Big Dawg

[skidawg]

PV=ghey!!! Having said that, I don't mind if peeps use it. Makes for enhanced entertainment and greater chances for yardsales n carnage

[RichardDoane]

I agree with skidawg, there are some hits you should not take, and it's fun to watch someone else do the ragdoll !

[David Miller]

I have to agree with Jeff Milford

There are many skiers out there that are injured or just have continual back pain and can not ski or compete with out the P Vest. If we dont allow the vest in tournaments we will loose even more skiers in a sport that is already shrinking. I have a P Vest and use it periodically when I really want to ski a lot of sets.

It enables me to train more with less fatigue I do not have a back injury so to speak but at times I just get worn out. That is when I like to put on the P Vest.  I compete against guys who use the P Vest and it would be pretty stupid of me to say they have an advantage. (I can put mine on any time I want and so can anyone else)

If the P Vest helps those with pain to ski I am all for it, if it gives them an advantage and they start smokin me i guess i better put on my P Vest as well!!!!

 Dave Miller

[h2odawg79]

Well put Dave.

I've read this thread from start to finish and I am amazed at the PMS' ing from people who #1. have never tried the vest and #2. never even Lost to another Guy wearing one!

I am a Neutral party who doesn't Ski With Goode equip. and like most, I have NEVER even tried the PV. But, I do have 1st hand experience with destroying my Back by breaking it in 2001. I ski with a lot of Pain, loss of strength and a whole slew of Balance, flexabilty and agility issues.

 

"IF" the PV could help to get a person over some of those issues, Then the only thing that would separate a "Normal" person and an injured person would be Skiing abilty!  What a shame to be beat by someone with a better skiing ability... Not to mention, "IF" this thing is ALL THAT, then why in the world would so many people keep Buying $1200.00 ski's (sometimes, 2 in the same freaking season!) for that "little extra advantage" (cough, cough...) But, not even try one of these vests out, and then sit back and whine about them?!?!          

[Graham]

Does anyone know how the fluid motion slalom harness compares to the PowerVest? http://www.jagersport.com/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=260

[454SS]

Let me first say this I have never used a powervest before and would not think of using one even if I did have back problems, this thing just looks dangerous to many straps and things that could go wrong besides if I had back problems I would rather strengthen my back through exercise than take away having to use my back at all while skiing which is what the powervest seems to do.

 

Second I would not want to ski against someone especially in a head to head comp who is wearing one knowing that it would give them a distinct endurance factor. If you want to use a powervest outside of competition so be it.

 

Eric there is something to be said about evolving technology in our ski equipment hardshells are just an evolution of binding performance and materials, this would translate in the form of a ski vest to something tighter fitting or more aerodynamic not straps that hold you in position a skiing position so that you don't yes you can ski longer in hardshells but you still have to use your muscles you make the ski turn, the powervest seems to take away having to use your muscles when skiing which is totally different.

 

Again I have only seen Dave Goode's video on the powevest and this is my take on it.

[h2odawg79]

454SS, I hear ya, but I have to say: Back injuries are So complecated and can be So Debilitating that simply going to the Gym and "Strengthening the muscles" will Never Ever, EVER replace, repair or Balance the Physical deficit caused by the "original injury". Ya, the original injury was the one that gave birth to All the other injuries that are now always knocking on your door and caused by Muscle, flexability and range of motion imbalances... Crushed vertebraes, Herniated or degenerative discs don't strengthen.

I absolutely LOVE to lift and LOVE to lift HVY! If my problems were fixable I would have been even better then New Thousands and Thousands of rep's ago! I rarely get Hurt in the Gym. But, skiing? -Ouchy!http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cry.gif 

P.S. getting back to the topic, maybe it should be banned from the "Big Dawg" event? But, for the rest of the time with regards to the ruling bodies and it's approval in events, I'd have to say: "If ya can't Beat "em, Join 'em"!  (Of course noone here has ever lost to one yet, so why all the Belly aching?!?!)

[dave2ball]

I have read all of the reply' s. Somebody make the comment about fin being non adjustable and rubber bindings vs. hardshell. Skiing is much like nascar. In nascar all the cars are somewhat alike. They all have a certain tolerance they have to a bib by. Yet the driver can tunes his car to his liking much like a skier tuning a fin or using hardshell over rubber bindings. In the end the best driver wins in Nascar and in skiing the the best performance wins well should win. In my opinion the PV falls into a performance enhancing category. I provides a mechanical advantage behind the boat. If people want to use the PV in practice that is the skiers choice. But in any tournament C or higher the power vest should not be allowed unless it has its own division. Maybe USA Water Ski should look at the power vest as a safety issue if people are getting hurt because of a vest design.

[h2odawg79]

Is not every performance enhancing developement available today; from the particular concave design, shape and flex of a given ski (not to mention All the special cohesive ingredients...) to the adjustable fin, to the adjustable Wing, to the Hard shells and Hybrids, to Gloves, to the Gloves with wrist wraps, to the  cincher clinchers, to the ergo Handles, radiused and custom dia. Handles, to the speed control devices, (P/P and Now ZO) to the Hull chine designs and Gates, to the Bubble Buoys that will now allow skiers the confidence to run right over the Balls without even blinking, etc... Are these, everyone of these not for the Benefit ( the performance Benefit) of ALL Skiers today??????? And available to ALL Skiers today. Availability -it's "Your choice"...

I think what some of you may be Looking for is a special div. for the Baddest Dawg on the water tournament! And for that, I believe we should go Back to Flat Wooden ski's, (Cypress Gardens? Taper flex? Voit?) Flemsy vinyl one size fits all Bindings, Non adjustable Fins, Wings? ya, right! We don't need No Steeeking Wings! and Gloves are for Seeesies, one size fits All Handles, Old school hand throttlers, Stars & Stripes MC, or an old Glastron I/O without a pylon, (seems a lot more Hard core) Air filled Buoys and absolutely NO Athletic enhancing Gaurds, Braces, Supports, Under Armour, Tape, Band aids, Advil, Tylenol, Caffeine, and don't even think about RedBull, RockStar, Monster, StarBucks or the like, Protein or any vitamin/mineral or Herbal supplementation, (you will be tested Before and after every event as well as random testing thoughout the entire off season) However, Steroids and Beer will not be banned and will actually be encouraged at all events. ( Bad Dawgs can't be be on the leash all the time) 

This just might be the new Hot Sport to over throw stuff like the MMA, Cage fighting and soft porn stuff like the WWF...

 

P.S. I Grew up Skiing with that kind of Equip. Waaaaaaay Back in the day. (70's & 80's) So, I assume many of todays younger Skiers are totally out of the loop when it comes to judging what is and what is not enhancing, fair or unfair...        

[dave2ball]

H2odawg79 I think you are going a bit over the top. I too grew up with the same equipment as you describe. I started skiing in '75 when I was 5 yrs old. I am not looking for a new special division. All of the new technologies with building skis CAD, lighter stronger materials and boats getting the same attention and better materials with gloves and so forth make the sport better no argument there. But you still need strength everything you mention about protein, caffeine, tape band-aids and so-forth does enhance your performance but in a different way. It does not give you leverage and the power vest provides a leverage factor that may be unmatched. That is all I am getting at.

[h2odawg79]

dave2ball, I was not singling you out and I sincerely appoligize if my post read that way. There are several post's that are very puzzling to me. Whether it's Leverage, endurance, speed or safety, anything that effectively helps (enhances) performance and its use is not deemed Illegal, prohibited or discriminated upon and is equally available to everyone across the board, then how in the world can anyone complain about its use by a fellow competitor?

"IF" all of these puzzling remarks had any truth or value in our present day, then we would have to step back and remove Ski's that accellerate quicker, carry more speed into and through the corners while simultaneousy creating a safer and more stabile ride, or Gloves that allow people More Endurance through better grip and wrist wraps, protection from Blisters and ripped up palms, while allowing skiers to take Bigger hits from the boat w/o having the Handle ripped out from their soft wet Hands, Up grades in Bindings that once again offer enhanced performance, more endurance and MORE Leverage, even vests that coincidently have Lumbar supports built into the padding and have a strategically placed nylon strap, etc...

These are just a few of the many innovative advances that we all thankfully have at our disposal. It is well within the rights of every skier out there to ski without Gloves any time they feel So Bold, just don't whine about all the other skiers who are using them. (Would it not be possible to be Blown off the water by a lesser skier who simply had Gloves, if you didn't?)

Respectfully; -It's here, it's Legal and the Best that any of us can do is simply "Put up or Shut up". Like every competitive event on the face of the Earth; Put up scores by every Legal means neccessary or Shut up! It really is that simple.       

[Old MS Accout]

If you make the PV illegal, it would no longer be EVERY LEGAL MEANS.

 

[Boody]

My back is starting to hurt after reading all these posts, may have to pick one up, LOL.  Is it really that good?  I would think they would be all over the place if they worked that well.  I am starting to see both side of the argument.  I guess I keep falling back on the same position, I just don't see how they can be illegal.  However, I do think the arguments against PV are more compelling in any event where endurance is an issue, like Big Dawg or head to head, etc.

Would I get pissed if I got beat by someone with a PV, yes.  But Milford entered M3 regional Championships so I am going to have to  get used to it soon.  But he could kick my ass without a PV......I think.

[Roger]

I guess I'm with the no crowd. I don't believe in any leverage device for slalom including PVs and clinchers. All the other stuff out there like concaves, adjustable fins, hard shells, etc., enhance feel or performance of the device, but not an enhancement of leverage. Some would say that hard shells do this, but I don't agree. The world record was once held by three guys at the same time at 1 @ 43, two of which were on rubber bindings and one even had a toe piece. The current world record holder set his first 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 on rubber before moving to the Reflex. This sport is supposed to be about the best athlete, not the leverage device. More than one PV user has told me they can hold onto much greater "hit's" than they could before. There is a guy I compete against in my division all the time that says he cannot run 35 without his clinchers. There is a reason that the guys (and gals) spending the most time on the water and at the gym are winning the most. One of our local ski school instructors tried the PV recently (he can run into 41 off at 36 mph). He said that he could see some major injuries coming from getting locked into more than you could hold and rocketing out the front. I see both sides of the argument, but I'm still against it as I'd like to see this sport remain about the ahtlete.

[Horton]

I want to thank you guys for keeping this thread civil. This is what BallOfSpray is all about. Honest debate among thinking individuals. I have not commented before because I really do not have a dog in this fight.

I think the PV is another cool innovation but if I was the organizer of a Head2Head I would consider the issue- would have to. Outside of an event where endurance is an issue, I can not imagine a logical objection. I do not use one but do not care who does.

[AggieSkier]

GOODE POWER VEST PASSES AWSA TECHNICAL COMMITTEE REVIEW

By Jerry Jackson, AWSA TC Chairman

7/18/2010

The Technical Committee (TC) has evaluated the Goode Power Vest as requested. The results showed that the Goode Power Vest does NOT have restrictions that would prevent its use at any AWSA Sanctioned Tournament. The Goode Power Vest should be worn as indicated in the owner’s manual.

A survey was performed by the TC Committee and Safety Committee, and the conclusions were the same from a majority of the members. It is believed that the Goode Power Vest will NOT provide an advantage. The use of the vest (structural design) does not increase the risk of injury to a skier. It appears that it would allow a person to continue skiing if injured (shoulder, back, elbow, etc), just as a knee brace. In addition, if this Goode Power Vest did provide an advantage, it would be treated as a sling for jumping. There is no AWSA/IWWF rule that would disallow the use of this vest. Although all skiers ski at their own risk, it is recommended that the guard rash be worn to prevent the strip from being loose in case of a fall to mitigate injury as indicated in the owner’s manual.

The Technical Committee and Safety Committee recommend to the AWSA President to notify all tournament hosts and safety directors of the evaluation results. The vest is allowed to be used. The Tournament Safety Director should ensure the guard rash is available on the vest and inform the skier of the importance of the guard rash.

[liquid d]

There's a couple of them for sale on Ski it again....

[bxroads]

I am not a tournament skier, but from my perspective and based on my observations, anything that increases participation is a good thing.  I see tournament results posted all of the time with only a couple of particpants in each class.  Its a dying sport and any device that makes its easier to particpate should be welcomed by those who do not want to see it die.  Heck, the only direct drive my local dealer has ever stocked is the 200 and thats only because CC required it.  I want to see more skiers and ski boats.  Do I think the powervest could make that happen?  Its definitely a step in the right direction and banning it from competition is a step in the wrong direction.

[Old MS Accout]

BX,

I dont think having someone spend 500 will increase participation. It may actually make someone think twice about wanting to enter into a already very expensive sport.

[bxroads]

I see it way more complex than that.  Tournament use will promote it.  Promotion will increase purchases by recreational guys like myself.  Recreational guys like myself create skiers of the future.  I've severe tendonitis and was selling out until I discovered the Powervest.  Now I can ski and the pain is managable.  I've set up a course and I've the only ski boat on the lake.  I've tought at least five kids to ski just this summer.  A couple of them show interest and have nice ability.  Just this year we would have lost at least five skiers if it were not for the Powervest.

 

 

[bmiller3536]

I do not think the PV is going to save the sport of waterskiing,

bxroads are you currently an awsa member?

[Roger]

JayG80, can you provide a link to that information please? I can't find it anywhere on the web or on the USAWaterski site...

[bxroads]

"I do not think the PV is going to save the sport of waterskiing,"

I am proof that it has saved skiing on my lake.  There's a good chance I wouldn't have bought the vest if I had the impression it was "cheating" and I was definitely getting out of skiing without the vest.

 I am not an awsa member. 

[Old MS Accout]

I dont think the vest should not be bought our used, I just dont think it should be allowed in any head to heads. Practice and ski tourneys all you want with them on, but take it off for the head to heads.

Gatoraid is known to help recovery and aid in performance as are roids. Should roids be legal?

 

[bmiller3536]

You talk about saving the sport but you will not support the sport and join the AWSA? That does not make any sense.

 

[bxroads]

"You talk about saving the sport but you will not support the sport and join the AWSA? That does not make any sense"

 Dude, slow down.  Who said I would not support the sport or join AWSA?  Thats the first time I've ever been asked.   And it was a hell of a way to be asked. 

[bxroads]

"I dont think the vest should not be bought our used, I just dont think it should be allowed in any head to heads. Practice and ski tourneys all you want with them on, but take it off for the head to heads. "

 I'm not a competive skier but from a layman's perspective you have a valid point.  But the fact that its available to everyone is the counter to that argument.  Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal if the powervest was at the same price point as a regular vest.  Or would it be a bigger deal because more people would have them.

[bxroads]

MS, I will add this too.  From experience, its unreal how many more passes you can run with the vest vs without it.  I'd say its at least a 2 to 1 ratio and probably more like 3 to 1.   There is a definite stamina advantage.   My wife has grown to be not as fond of it as I.  She stays in the drivers seat to long!

[slow]

junk

[Jody_Seal]

Come on this weekend Clint bring your vest and a credit card we will hook you up with AWSA and get you two rounds at Corys international cup tournament in SRB. Then you will get a great Magazine 9 times a year and have all the benny's that we AWSA members get!/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif Yahoo!!!!

[AggieSkier]

Roger - South Central Website has PV announcement

 

http://www.awsasouthcentral.org/

[Old MS Accout]

BX,

I know a guy in TX that uses one and he was in a rush to get home and left it on while he drove. He wants Goode to make one for driving cause his back felt so good.

He swears by it for skiing and has no pain since he started using it. 

 

 

[Roger]

JayG80 - Thanks! You would think that would be posted on Usawaterski as well, but if it is, I can't find it.

[bxroads]

Jody, I just want to ski.  You're always dissing me.   Are you ashamed for me to be in your boat with a powervest?http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-frown.gif

[Jody_Seal]

GEZZZZ Dude That was  an honest invitation, as you state know one has invited you to join AWSA. We have a big tourney this weekend and would love to have you your team their at least as spectator. Three world champions and record holders will be their.

Nothing against your vest!  Tho ? 

And always dissing? Ok only the vest!!

Cheers..

[ForrestGump]

Man, I'd be all over that invitiation to Cory's if I got it, BX!

[bxroads]

Jody, We've been talking about heading down to the beach this weekend anyway.  I may hit our lake at sun up Saturday then bring the family down.   What is the schedule?

 

 

[bxroads]

"And always dissing? Ok only the vest!! "

 I've got to admit that you have to very comfortable with your masculinity to wear it.........but I've got no problem with that...........

[Jody_Seal]

Slalom Starts at 7:30Am with jr girls on to g3,mm,m3-10,om,ow,b3,b1,b2,m1and w1-10 total 54 slalom rides then on to trick and jump!!!

[bxroads]

Hummm, maybe we need to come down Friday after lunch and ski your lake Friday afternoon and watch the show Saturday AM.

[Ed_Johnson]

BX

I highly recommend you go. You will meet some of the nicest people on earth, have a great time, learn a lot, and have one of those    "Glad I did that moments."...........ED

[bxroads]

I'll have to agree with nicest people comment.  Jody has already gone way above and beyond for me.  I owe him big time and will not forget it.

 

[A_B]

Does anyone know who is making the power vest for Goode?

 

I like the look of the jacket but wouldn't want the straps.

 

My straight-line ultra vest is getting worn out.

 

I tried the HO Candidate I think it was called, and liked that but way too short and exposed lower ribs.

The Goode vest looks longer in front.

[Ed_Johnson]

AB,

I feel my Eagle Vest is just as long as my Goode Vest was. Plus it is lighter and more comfortable.....ED

PS: Having no buckles is a big plus.

[Old MS Accout]

AB,

Eagle Vests are great.

[clemsondave]

Agree, I have 2 Eagle vests and love them. So much so that I'm inquiring to be a dealer.

[MattP]

Eagle is the way to go when getting a new vest

[Dirt]

I got to try on a PV at Regionals today. This thing is amazing! I didn't get to ski in it but wearing it around the dock I was able to steal Kuziak's ski and girlfriend. I guess he'll have to buy one if he wants them back.

[Horton]

Yes that chick is hot. Did Krissy see this photo? You look like a dork. You are a dork.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4-6ay9R-bLE/TEukhSPc0eI/AAAAAAAADOY/uEDxwyaQFNY/s800/PV.JPG

[skidawg]

Dsmart is officially ghey