Safety Issues With Fogman Binders

[jipster43]

I was hanging out with a pal of mine who is a much more accomplished/seasoned tournament skier than myself, and I mentioned that I was going to be running Fogman bindings this year.  He said something to the effect that my ankles will hate me for it.  Has anyone else had similar issues with Fogmans?  Does anyone here swear by them?  I'm 43 and don't really want to deal with any injuries - which is why I ponied up the cash for the Fogmans.  It's kind of a bummer to hear they may be hazardous.  I'm a mere 135 lbs/5'5" and have them mounted to a 65" Elite on a G-10 plate with 250/400 interlock.

 Thanks!

 JP :)

[RichardDoane]

I skied on Fogmans for a couple seasons, and had a couple of "high ankle sprains" where it was almost like major shin splints. I took lots of crashes back then, and I was happy with their performance overall.

[jipster43]

Thanks Richard!  How would you compare the Fogmans with the Stradas?  Are you more confident in the Stradas?

 Again, muchas gracias!

JP :)

[lpskier]

I have been in Fogmans for nine years. Lots of hard falls and no injuries. Far superior to rubber. Fogman invented and patented rotational bindings. Comfortable. Warm in cold water. Easy to get on and off. No early season foot cramping. Incredible edge control.  No binding is perfect, but Fogmans are darned good.

[jipster43]

Thanks lp!  I've always heard good things about Fogmans, but when someone starts mentioning ankle injuries I start to question things.  I'm very glad to know both you and RD have ripped on 'em with positive results. 

If anyone else wants to chime in here and waylay my fears with a success story - feel free.  And if you have experienced less than remarkable results, I'd like to hear those stories too.

Thanks.

JP :)

[RichardDoane]

My Fogmans allowed me to keep skiing after breaking my ankles in Powershells years ago. The only time I got hurt was crashing "feet forward", and no binding releases in that way. It's kind of like jumping off of a roof and just landing really hard. It's probably been at least 4 years, and Fogmans have gotten even better since. I agree with lpskier, it's really important to have comfy feet, that's one of the best things I like about my RS Boots.

[trs1]

JP,

 There is no 100% safe binding out there and I think with any boot, you will find at least 1 person (if not more) that has had an issue with it.

With Fogmans specifically, they are not designed to release in a total OTF/tip digging fall.  The ski flexes into itself and tightens up the RUs, thus binding up the system.

That being said, there are many many people who have used Fogmans for years, self included, and knock on wood, have not had any issues in them.  I have used Fogmans for 12 years now and been just fine.  I sell all the types of bindings out there, hardshell and rubber, and I have heard of injuries in every single type of boot out there.

I have heard all the complaints about Fogman and heard of injuries in them as well.  Most of the injuries I have heard of would have most likley happened in any binding system. (Hitting the buoy and smashing your ankle isthe #1 story I have heard)

With Fogmans specifically, there is an "aftermarket" G10 carbon plate that assists in releasing in an OTF fall and there are quite a few people that swear by this plate.

Just be aware, just cause you have hardshells it is not going to keep you from injuring yourself 100% of the time.  Skiing is a inherently dangerous sport and there will be injuries.

set up is key with Fogmans to make sure that it will release when necessary.  I know you bought a G10 adapter plate and that makes set up much much easier.

I am sure your friend has many good points about why he is not a fan of Fogmans.  But I am sure I can find others who are not fans whatever other boot you can come up with out there today.  Everyone has an opinion.

Bottom line is, just do your best to ski safe, stay within your boundaries (to an extent) and take care of your equipment.

I have learned in the last few years that if you do not think you will get outside the buoy and you may hit it, dont go for it.  Not worth it. (I like walking too much! HA).

Live to ski another day.  That buoy will be there tomorrow.

Have fun with the new set up.  I think you got a used set up, so make sure the RUs are in good working condition as with everything else before getting out there.

If you want to talk in more detail, give me a buzz.

later

TS

tadd at h2oproshop dot com.

866.213.7993

 

[rfa]

i get through 32off/34 on a lucky day, so my experience is limited to this level of skiing. i am on my second set of Fogmans (first the original blue boots for about 5 years and now into my third year on red diablos - got both throught TRS1). One possible pre-release fall (still not sure)  and a fair number of other falls. so far the release has been PERFECT...never feel even a tweak on my ankles, actually don't even know the ski is gone until i look for it at the end of my legs...

i was on rubber bindings before the fogmans so i have no experience with other hard shells...but i can only say good things about the fogmans. And yes, they are comfortable!

(my first post ever, but have enjoyed reading the forum for awhile)

[D Wolters]

 rfa

 Welcome to BOS. Post as often as u like.

Running -32 is a good score.

Red Diablos are a sick looking setup. 

What brand of stick are u riding? 

[rfa]

Thank you!

Radar MPD, 65". (I am M5, about 5' 7", 145 lbs). This will be my 3rd year on that stick, so may be time to try out other options...  

[Ed_Johnson]

Welcome RFA,

If you read this Forum you will see that the Strada and Goode Mid-Ride seem to be the top contenders.

Regards,  ED

[LeonL]

I've been on Fogman's for about 3-4 years.  The only  issue I've had is I just could not ski with the Red Diablos.  I was on hardshells prior to the Diablos, but just could not get thing going with them.  So I mounted my old shells on the Fogmans release plates, which is the subject of this thread anyway.  I've had several "significant" falls and as someone stated above, I didn't know that I had a release until I looked down realized that my ski was missing.  In fact, in a tournament early on with the Fogman release system I fell kinda hard and took off swimming for the bank and someone yelled "Hey idiot your ski is over here the other direction, you might want to take it with you."

[Old MS Accout]

I only know of 2 guys up here that have tried the red Diablos. Both were out with torn Acillies within the first month. I am not sayen, just sayen.

[MrJones]

MS

Wouldn't that be "sayin?"

 BTW, feel free to come over to Lafayette and ski while you're down here.

[D Wolters]

rfa,

I just rolled into M5 and was on an MPD, if you get a chance try the Strada! Sit's down in the water just like the MPD but carves a sweeeet line. No user input coming into and out of the ball.

I haven't tried it yet but I bet if I jumped back on my MPD I'd be thinking "What a Dog"

[ForrestGump]

MS, I'm curious if the people you mention tore their rear leg achilles? I could certainly see a front stuff, where the release was bound, could cause a rear heel issue.

But then again, this is a dangerous sport. There's no completely safe binding. There are no victims, only volunteers. :)

[Old MS Accout]

Scot,

Getting in on Thursday afternoon so probably not this time. I am doing the tour after JDs tourney and we can hook up then. If Skokes boat is under control I would like another shot at his lake also.

Shane,

Both were front blowouts. I agree on the no safe set up comment, but both of them did not return to the fogmans after they recovered.

sayen, sayin. Both are not words, so spelling dont matter.       

[aguylikeshark]

I got hurt a couple of times on the Fogs before the re-design began. It was our starting point for the Quattro system. After 10 years of injury free skiing my forward ankle is permantly scarred up and my back foot has issues through the middle of it. So yeah not to be taken lightly.

I talked to Miller before he passed away. Miller was the guy who designed the releases. The biggest issue here is taking a design from snow with direct application over to water. I could go into tech detail but think TRS summed it up.

No matter what gets said on forums or boards about anything, sooner or later the results speak for themselves and the word gets around. that's what i've noticed. there is a lot of truth in the sport of slalom.

 

[scoke]

 

 

ahhh the Ol FOGMANGLER discussions. Happens once a year it seems, lots of "former" users.

 

The 07 Nauti is rocking. First prop swap dropped the RPM's 150. Second recent prop swap (running it now) dropped it another 150ish. Banging out 3600 entering the course. Feels very similar to the Black n blue 08 Nauti formerly of southern canada  (skied it yesterday ;) ) come on down MS, the lake is skiing like Buttah. Check out our weather station when you can. Jfox is working on a webcam now.

 

[Old MS Accout]

Killer.

Are you skiing Thursdays? Maybe I can fly into BTR instead of MSY.   

[scoke]

 

Of course, tuesday/thursday and the usuals. let me know dates and we can work something out etc.

[jipster43]

Thanks for all the input fellas!  I sure do appreciate it.  Thanks again for all your technical support Tad!  I get better service from the shop 3,000 miles away than I do here in town.  And that's sayin' something.  My Fogmans are second hand, but brand new and unused, so I shouldn't have any issues with the setup.  The additional safety of the G10 plate should quell all my fears as well.

Worrrying about binding related injuries is certainly not new to me.  I can remember getting nervous when the Kidder high wraps replaced the wet wrap some 27 years ago.  My biggest concern is definitely hitting a ball, but that is just a matter of calming down and not letting my ego get away from me.  Considering my style, I think these binders are going to do the trick perfectly well - while being comfortable and warm (there's still snow on the ground here).  

Thanks again to all who responded!  Thanks Richard for posting all your videos throughout the winter!  I grew up on Lake Tapps, so I know exactly how cold those sets were!  Heck!  Tapps doesn't even start fill up until Spring. 

 JP :)