Getting a knot out of a rope

[east tx skier]

I'm long overdue to replace my rope.  I have a spare NIB.  Only problem is that my handle is pretty attached to the old rope.  I recall reading that a good soak in warm water is a good way to loosen things up.  Just thought I'd see what people have done other than this to get a knot in a ski rope to loosen up.

[eleeski]

Icepick if all else fails. Beat it with a hammer first.

Really! But you've got to be desperate.

Eric

[ForrestGump]

Soak it, then hold it about 18 inches from the knot and swing the knot at something flat repeatedly. I usually use the gunwale of the boat for this. Hopefully you can start to loosen it.

[RichardDoane]

Call Brenda @ InTow, 575 527 2917, have her tie you a rope and a new handle, call it an early birthday present to yourself if your wife finds out.

[Jean B]

wow, I am thinking since the handle loop is stuck to the rope loop, that is was never put on correctly, two loops should slide together, you should have never had one loop bent like a knot over the other.Also it sounds like the handle has been on there as long as you have had the rope, if you need a new rope you need a new handle, or if you just can't part with the handle, have Brenda at Intow retie your handle for you.

[thager]

Soak it in soapy water, then beat it with a rock or hammer gently. Since you should have loops each side of the knot alternately pull hard on each side of the loops repeated times to work it free. If all else fails remove the shift knob, replace with a Nautique and add new rope and handle!

[Drago]

try pulling the loop of the handle or the rope [whichever is bigger] open sideways, or put one loop over the pylon and pull straight back. If u use a hammer or rock, you should re-string your handle anyway because your going to trash the rope and it won't break until you put lots of load on it [= ribs into wake].

[skibug]

Give yourself about 2 feet of slack and beat it against the concrete about 10 times.  She'll come undone.

[robscholl-OF]

I had a knot in a mainline that was skied by several weeks with some big pullers.  I did not think I would ever get it out.  I agree with the hammer method.  I took a hammer and and softly tapped on it while rolling it on the garage floor.  It came out very easy, I was amazed.  Only one strand of the rope broke.

It is now my back-up rope as I agree with RD.  Call Brenda and get a new rope.  Best $70 you will spend and really cheap insurance.  OF

[D Wolters]

You don't have to soak it but at least use soapy water, use a smooth surface and the handle end if a hammer. While rolling the rope back in forth on a smooth surface tap it continuously with the handle. Grasp the rope with both hands, one on each side of the knot and push inward on the knot while rotating your hands back and forth. If it doesn't come loose the first time repeat process. Works every time!

 Knots are hard on a rope and usually result in the weak link of the rope. Best answer is to replace it if it's as old as is sounds!

[east tx skier]

Thanks for the info.  It's not exactly a knot.  It's the handle passed once through the loop (hard to put to words, but it's how I've seen most every other handle attached). 

 Thrall, I already have the "correct craft" under the throttle handle.

[Old MS Accout]

Awesome

[east tx skier]

Thanks to all.  A little warm soapy water and some light hammer taps loosened things up perfectly.  Another question.  The new SL rope has a little black hook on the loop (handle end).  Do I just pass the handle loop through the loop and attach it to the hook.  Seems like it could come loose with line slack.  There doesn't appear to be any way to remove it.

[HO 410]

I've seen that hook before but have no clue what it's for. I know the first few times I switched out handles I inadvertently tied them handle through rope, rope through handle. They were all hard to remove, and one of them took some hammering. As long as I've remembered to go rope through handle, handle through rope it has been easy to remove.

[skibug]

If it is the black hook that I remember; it is used to eliminate the fidded handle and rope loops from getting stuck together.  If it is the same one I remember; you make sure the handle loop is in the hook and under tension it will sinch down enough not to loosen; but, remains easy to seperate.

If you are passing your handle through the fidded loop that is on the handle section, to attach it to the mainline, you are doing it wrong and this can cause a real tight configuration.

[HO 410]

I though I saw that hook north of the mainline loop. Apparently I didn't look very closely. It makes sense, but it seems a little redundant unless the handle is tied backward.

[D Wolters]

If your going to use that style of rope get a hacksaw and cut that thing off. It's meant to be used as an easy connect/disconnect of the handle bridle. It will only get you/someone hurt

[skibug]

I agree with D Wolters...remove it.

[east tx skier]

Removing it is going to take some less than gentle hammering.

I'm reading this stuff and realizing that I may have been attaching my handle section incorrectly for some time now.  Anyone care to make me a video on how to do it correctly.  

Unfortunately, "rope through handle, handle through rope doesn't seem to make a ton of sense when it's just written out.

 

Does that mean I take the ski rope and pass it through the loop on the handle section, then pass the handle itself through the loop on the end of the mainline?  I just did this and it looks right.  I can just slide the hook up the loop a little and it's a nonfactor, although putting my handle loop underneath it would assure that it never gets too tight without any chance of things coming undone.

[Old MS Accout]

Keep East TX from doing any dock starting.

 

[east tx skier]

That's the least of my (and you all's) worries. I just need to be able to get that handle section off to fend off the alligators. 

 So does what I just did sound right or what?

[RichardDoane]

east Tex - you need a trip the the Washington State, and we'll show you how to rope a salmon....

[east tx skier]

Agreed.  And all this time, I was sure I was doing it right.

 

The fact that I don't have an answer yet has me convinced that none among us is 100% sure he is doing it correctly.

[HO 410]

Yep, you got it.

[robscholl-OF]

Dude, get that woggel thing off immediately.  Pound it with a hammer, it will come off.  That thing will do nothing buy hurt a person.....I will shoot you a video.....OF

[east tx skier]

It's amazing, no matter what my problem is, the answer is to pound it with a hammer!

410, I think I've got it!

 

/I'll get the hook off.  Need to just keep a hammer in the boat.

[HO 410]

I'll drop some old Scouts and rock climbing knowledge: hopefully it makes sense. The method you described will tie a square knot. Like a bowline, it is not self tightening. If you pass the handle through loop at the end of the handle, you will tie a lark's head (I seem to remember it also being called a round hitch). It is a self tightening and not desirable in this application. If you would like some pictures, I'll see what I can work out.

[robscholl-OF]

Here is a video I just shot for you.....OF

 

 

[RichardDoane]

Officer Friendly for "Chief Dock Starter" at Regionals !

[lagdawg]

The first method is my preferred method and the one I use nearly 99% of the time. However, here in Ohio, there is a contingent of skiers who seem to prefer the US Gear handles. Because of the stiff plastic covering the rope down to the "Y", these handles are nearly impossible to use that method on. So we are forced to use the second method that OF shows. If you use this method, the important part is to make sure you twist the rope so that the knot looks like the first one. It always makes for an interesting time when someone shows up at a tournament with one of these handles and we have a less experienced dock starter/rope handler/boat judge changing out the handle.

 

The other issue I have seen with the handle connection is when you are using a handle and rope that have a very large difference in rope diameter. Specifically I see this a lot with jump handles using the spectra line on a fatter jump line where the rope naturally pulls over itself to create a self tightening lark's head type knot. Normally jump handles and ropes don't get use quite as often so they don't get locked on but it is a pain sometimes.

 

As far as the woggle take it off the rope immediately. If you do try and use it you are only going to break it and whoever is unlucky enough to have it break on them will not be a happy camper.

[Old MS Accout]

OF for Cheif dock starter at Nationals.............

[HO 410]

I've got an armguard on my handle. The one, very effective method, that we have discovered for dock starters is to grab the handle line and wrap it around the bar, using the friction to hold it all rolled up. So far so good, fingers crossed that this method won't wreck the panel in the 3rd full season. I haven't fiddled around with a US Gear handle but I have a hard time believing that a US Gear handle is stiffer than my Masterline with Armguard. That said, having a large loop on your mainline is a revelation. I can't believe that ML or SL don't make at least their record ropes with larger loops at the end.

[lagdawg]

The US Gear handles have a stiff plastic tube instead the standard endcaps you would find on most handles. They are nearly impossible to bend. If you can roll up your armguard then it is not nearly as stiff as a US Gear handle. If everyone used intow ropes for tournaments that would make things much easier.

[RichardDoane]

yet another reason to call Brenda @ InTow - Horton, you ought to get her an ad on the main page

[east tx skier]

Excellent!  Thanks, OF!  Looks like I got it right after years of doing it wrong.  38 off will follow.

Last time I was in the market for a handle, Brenda was having supplier problems unfortunately (and I need a small diameter).  I may send it to her soon for a restring though.

[Chuck_Dickey]

I have a US Gear handle with an Arm Guard! Talk about stiff!  Dock starters have caught on to OF's second demo'd method and the handle has a large loop so it works well.

PS: Thanks TW for Arm Guard! I hit the mech panel with my fist the other day during a slack line fall. I'm sure my arm would have gone through the V had I not had the Arm Guard! It just bounced off the mech just as the rope went tight and jerked it away.

[robscholl-OF]

You fly me to Nationals and I will be the chief dock starter..................The US Gear handles and arm guards is why I buy all my ropes from In-Tow.  I have Brenda tie with a big loop......no issues anymore......OF 

I just watched that video.....I should be getting paid by Brenda, not paying her.......OF

[Thomas Wayne]

FYI, any correctly tied square-knot will  automatically contain a couple of lark's head knots, since the lark's head knot is technically half of a square-knot tied around a rigid object.  In fact, a common way to "break open" a cinched square-knot is to pull one rope into a straight line so that it forces the other rope into a lark's head configuration.

The twisting of the bridle eye that OF mentions is easily corrected by simply rolling the end of the bridle eye in your fingers such that is returns to its natural untwisted form.  This is how I do it when I'm using someone else's mainline with my handle section - since my handle has a HUGE eye (I specify 12-inch eyes from Brenda), but most mainlines have standard size eyes.

TW

[robscholl-OF]

If you watch the video I twisted it so it was correct.  I was just commenting about it because it seems that when I am at a tournament I am handed my handle with the rope twisted and have to fix it.  That is why when I am doing the dock thing, I do it the way I first showed....OF