Injury and Binding Choice

[Marco]

I'm a few weeks away from getting back on the water after rupturing my achilles tendon last September.  I was on a Reflex when I hit a buoy and destroyed my front foot.  I have no way of knowing if a different binding would have prevented the injury, but now I am reconsidering my binding choice because of my repaired achilles tendon.

I am curious as to what binding release system would be most friendly to an achilles tendon in an out the front release.  I don't want to sacrifice the performance and connection to the ski that I got with the Reflex, so I don't want to go back to rubber, and I want to stay away from Velcro.  I was thinking about the new Strada's, but don't know much about them, or any of the newer bindings for that matter.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Roger]

As an RS-1 binding user, I am very pleased with how they release in that type situation. I have stalled the ski to the point that I went straight over the front at an extreme angle and they released fine (Strata is the next gen RS-1, so same thing). The key to these bindings is to have some elasticity left in the laces. If you do not have enough volume in your foot to allow for this, then add superfeet or some other orthotic until you do not have to tighten the laces to the point of no stretch. I'm starting my 3rd season on them.

Keep in mind that we are participating in a dynamic moving sport. Injury is still possible no matter the system in use...

[HO 410]

I'll echo Roger. The RS-1 is pretty simple, but it works very well when it is allowed to. My experience has been very positive. For me, the liner and shell fit very tight, so tight laces don't really change how the boot skis (at least that is what I feel). What is very good is that you can very easily test how hard it is to come out on dry land. There is also a style of FM and two Obrien models that use a similar style release. I think it is one of the better options that is currently available.

[Steven]

I've been on the FM quatro's since '05 with zero injuries and no pre-release. Although, these bindings do require you to stay on top of the set up for the system to work correctly. The newer E Series works like the Strada/RS-1 in that the liner exits the shell upon a releasing fall. It all comes down to personal preferance and how much you like to tinker with your gear.

[RichardDoane]

Marco - I agree with Roger, my RS-1/Strada Boots rock !  In fact, I just bought Tadd's last set of RS1 liners to bring new life to my last years' boots.  I probably tie my laces a little too tight, and knock on wood, but haven't had any major crash damage so far.

[Marco]

Thanks for all the input.  It sounds like the Stradas may be the way to go for me, since I don't like to tinker much when I get the set up dialed in.

Richard-How is the performance aspect of the Stradas?  I haven't seen them in person, but they appear to be a hybrid of a hardshell and soft binding???  Do you get the same edge control as with hardshells?  I'd imagine so, otherwise you wouldn't be running into 39 all the time...

[MrJones]

Marco,

I am a skier who had a bad injury to my subtalar joint from an OTF fall and a Physical Therapist. There are probably several bindings that would work you. The ones you should absolutely stay away from are the ones where the entire plate releases as one. (i.e. Powershells, Fogmans, the new HO)

 If you go straight OTF the vast majority of the pull is from your front heel. If the binding is designed to release from the front and back of a double single plate there is much less chance that it will let you go without injury. In my OTF I had way too much dual lock on my powershells. My heel (calcaneous) stayed locked down while my talus (upper ankle bone) tried to go up/forward. Torn ligaments, end of season. Can't jog anymore. Crap.

The odd thing is that the reflex you were on is a binding that releases from the front heel. Just goes to show that nothing is going to work every time. I personally stayed with Powershells and then with double reflex boots on a G 10 plate until this summer. I never had another serious incident with them, but I was very cautious with amount of dual lock I put on. The problem I got tired of was trying to get the magic amout of tape.

BTW. I have about 5 sets on a set of double Stradas and love them so far. I was concerned coming off the double Reflex boots they would feel super soft and sloppy. They don't. I did start up with them first ride this spring after 4 months off which probably helped in that respect. Nontheless, I am 99% sure I am now a convert.

[Marco]

Brent- I had a single Reflex front and a D3 rear highwrap.  Thanks for the info on the Quattros.  I have heard that the FM's are heavy.  Do you find that to be the case?

Scot- thank you for the detailed explanation. I may have had my binding cranked down too tight which would explain the injury. I'll stay away from the single plate release.  Perhaps the Reflex is still the binding for me if I loosen it up slightly, but the Stradas sure sound intriguing...

[RichardDoane]

Marco - I wish I got into -39 every set....still blowing it sometines...  The Stradas/RS-1's have every bit of performance as the established "hard shells", and when on a single plate allow your ski flex to remain unchanged.  Just keep the laces adjusted on the looser side and you'll be fine.  Horton doesn't tie his up very tight and they still have great lateral support.  With a superfoot insole you'll have the most comfortable binding you've ever skied in. 

[Gern Blanston]

I have a question for all the Strada/RS-1 users:  do they feel snug?  Does your heel move at all?  I just get the impression that when you don't want the laces too tight that they won't fit all that well.

I have FM E's and like the fact that I can crank the ankle cuffs down and that in no way affects my release.

Oh yeah - you may wish to fill your bouys half full of water like TW suggests.  That may help as well.

[Steven]

The Quatro's are on the heavy side but IMO that's not such a bad thing! As for tinkering with them, you initially have to get them set up according to Mfr. specs. for them to function correctly. (just like any other high end mechanical type system) IMO the Quatro's are one of the safest set ups out there! The Strada's, RS-1's, E-Series are definately a close second when it comes to predictable release, but for ease of operation, they're the ticket! You can't go wrong with any of them.

[HO 410]

The Strada/RS-1 does not make its support through pressure. If you get into them for the first time expecting to feel the security of tight buckles or a snug overlay, you are going to be weirded out a bit. They are a very different option than most any other boot available. From the ankle-bone down, the shell is pretty snug: there is a lace over the toe box to put a little extra pressure on the forefoot. For me, pulling the upper cuff tighter does not make the boot feel or perform better, it make the boot feel claustrophobic. Because the release is a cuff, I liken it to a gate, that is elastic, you can work your heel up and down while sitting in the water, but your cannot wiggle your foot site to side. It is miles away from being sloppy. The Radar and FM execution is very different, and if you prefer the feel of the E-series then it is doubtful that you would like the Radars at all.

[RichardDoane]

Marco - what size shoe are you ?  I've got a couple sets of RS1's you could try if you're interested. Email me at richard@burienautorepair.com or whisper back.

Gern - I pull my laces pretty tight, and with the superfoot insole my feet don't move around in the liner.  It's also  important to get the front toe laces good and tight to keep your foot from moving forward when you really step on the front of the ski.

[Gloersen]

 

 

The Reflex is a reliable

releasing binding if the setting is not too high. That said,

if it is used in combo with a rear that doesn't allow the foot to come out

easily, like a D3 highwrap, then one may find

themselves tightening the release setting on the Reflex binding too much to

avoid the dreaded front foot out/rear foot in spill. I found this to be the

case when using a rear Approach until I converted the lace to

class=SpellE>bungie

cord. However, even with this I have stricken the

ball a couple times resulting in front foot release and rear still in.

 

 

 

A rear toe plate is

probably safest with the Reflex, can't do it personally, but have since

switched to a modified Wiley rear which permits easy foot release (but still

keeps the heel down) and thus allowing the Reflex release setting to be set

reasonably low.

 

 

[Marco]

Gloersen- I hear what your'e saying, and I can't ski with a RTP either.  I tightened the Reflex mainly because it was releasing regularly on my offside when I over-turned and stalled at the buoy.  (I know, I need to fix my offside turn rather than the binding).  My rear shin was getting torn up from hitting the ski.  Those were really the only 1 in 1 out falls I had with the Reflex.  When I tightened the Reflex, I was of the mindset that "in all the time" was safest.  What could happen???

Richard- thanks for the generous offer.  I whispered back.

[RichardDoane]

I always just eyeball it, we use the stiching line on the rear of the front boot as the reference point.  You'll be able to get it very close without taking the rear boot off.

[greghayes]

Another vote for RS-1 - but it is not for everyone. 

Having switched from rubber double boots to RS-1 the feel was very different.  I found myself overtightening the laces (despite all the warnings) to get a more snug feeling on the front of my feet. 

Now that I have many sets in on them, I barely tighten them down anymore because I realized that the boots fit very snugly laterally (side to side), but it made no difference how tight they were front-to-back on my performance. 

Now that I am used to them, I don't think I'd go back.  And having recovered from a slalom ankle break a few years back, I am comfortable about how they release in all situations.   

[jipster43]

What about Fogmans?  I just bought a set and when a buddy of mine found out he told me to say goodbye to my ankkes.  For some reason I was under the impression that they were extremely safe and stiff.  Has anyone modified their interloc to provide a second point of release for these bindings?   I've toyed with the idea of using 250 to 250  like Scotchipman recommends v.s. the 250 to 400.  I should point out that I am just entertaining the idea.  I would never turn myself into a human guinea pig, but if one of you already has, I'd love to hear the results!

 JP :)

[Boody]

Having used the RS-1s,I am always suprised with how many people like them, at least on the forums.  I don't like the way they performed "loose" but when I wore them tight, they wouldn't release.  But when snug I liked the performance.

I think you can get hurt in any set up because I have seen it over the years.  Just when I think a certain binding is the safest, someone will get all jacked up, break an ankle or leg. 

But, being on the FMs for 5 years, I do think they are a safe bet.  Good ankle support, comfortable, and decent release.  I am now on the goode inter-loc system and no problems so far, knock on wood.  Probably not as safe as the FMs however, but I have a lot of confidence in the release system.  

[Deanoski]

Marco, what was the release # on the heel piece??   4-5-6???

 

Deano

[Marco]

It was about 5 1/2.  The binding may not even be the reason for the injury,  There is a school of thought that buoy impact injuries are typically the result of the ski going airborn after striking the buoy and the injury occurs when the ski hits the water again.  This impact would be directed downward toward the ski, and no binding would release from that type of impact.  I have heard that from Syderhouse, and I think TW brought it up in a thread some time ago as well.

[Deanoski]

I tag a bouy last season ski stop on a dime I went fly otf  no injury   185lbs on din 5,  Tg is 200 lbs he is on 5 also  above 5 din I do not think you are coming out of the 404 heel. until it is to late.

 

my 2 cents

 

Deano

[Marco]

Finally got some time to demo the RS-1's that RD so generously loaned me.  I can see why these bindings are getting rave reviews.  Even with the laces loose, the lateral control was impressive.  I didn't test the release, but I have no doubt it would have been fine given the fact that I barely tightened the laces.  They were very comfortable as well...on my rear foot.  On my front (injured) foot, the top of the cuff of the shell was right where my achilles was repaired.  The tendon is abnormally thick due to the repair, and was getting extremely irritated from contact with the cuff, especially during the cast-out approaching the buoy .  I was able to ski multiple sets, but the discomfort was distracting.  This was not a flaw in design, rather a flaw in the new shape of my foot.

I skied a few passes on my Reflex, and the shell comes up higher and did not irritate the repair.  I think I'm going to have to stay on the Reflex for this season at least, or until my achilles returns (if it ever will) to its normal size.  (Jim Brake- did your foot ever get back to normal?)

I'm thinking about using a Reflex front with a Strada rear.  Has anyone used this combo, or see a potential conflict with the differing release systems?  My normal setup is with a D3 rear.

Richard- thanks again for loaning me the bindings!  Whisper me the address you want them shipped back to and I'll get them out on Monday.

Its great to be back on the water after 8 months!!!

[jipster43]

The Reflex front with the Strada rear sounds like it would work awesome to me.  It can't be much different than the R-style rear often used.

 JP :)

[RichardDoane]

Seems like a Strada rear with your Reflex front would work well, as long as you kept the laces fairly loose.

[Roger]

There is a guy down in Miami using the Reflex front and RS-1 rear; works just fine. I wonder if heat molding your liner would solve the achilles issue? I do believe a double Strada setup would be preferable to a hybred setup, however if you can't get a comfortable setup, then the Reflex/Strada would be my next pick. I've been on my RS-1s for 3 and a half seasons now and still feel they're as safe as any system out there (safer than most)...

[Marco]

It wasn't so much the liner, as the height of the cuff of the shell.  The top was right at the repair zone, which is about double (or more) the size of my other achilles.  I'll go with the hybrid for now, and if my foot ever gets back to normal, then I can add the front boot.

Will the universal plate work with a Reflex front?  I sure liked the way the ski flexed under that plate.

[RichardDoane]

I would imagine you could mount a Reflex front on the Radar plate, probably a good question for Darren @ Wiley's

[ToddL]

I believe Marc told me this...   For RS-1/Strata bindings, use a small tie wrap as a stop point on the laces, preventing the cinch from being set beyond the safe point.     For buckle-style bindings, paint the tooth where you set the buckles.    By using these techniques, you can ensure a consistent setting each time you ski.   Marc said that a skier was complaining about how the first set was always better than the second set.   He discovered that the skier was over tightening the bindings on the second set since they were wet and felt looser.