Do you have something to contribute? Driving Article?

[Horton]

Do you have something to contribute? Videos? Photos?  Interviews? Articles?  BallOfSpray is not mine, it is ours. I am only the gatekeeper. If you have an idea that is bigger then a forum post I want to hear about. So far this year, Butterfield and Jones have submitted killer articles for the main site.  

 

Be a part of BallOfSpray

 

Horton

Coyote Brothers Research Intergalactic Digital Media

[ktm300]

With all the attention on skis and speed control, I'd love to hear from every skier on this forum who has run 38 or 39 in an "R" talk about DRIVING.  At least where I live, there are very few people who can drive.  There are a lot who think they can drive and who get offended at a contrary suggestion.  One reason top skiers are sometimes viewed as snobs is because they cannot ski at their level with some hack in the driver's seat.  They stick together for survival's sake.   No, simply engaging the cruise control and weaving down the boat lane is not driving.  We spend a ton of time and energy talking about fins, skis, speed control, water viscosity and a host of issues which are legitimate and do affect us.  However, at a certain point, I say all of that is trumped by the driving.  A friend of mine who has run 39 multiple times in R tournaments at 58k finally drove the point home to me.  I have personally watched him run 39 four times in a row back to back in same set in practice.  This was a personal best outing for him.  He does some clinics around the country.  At the clinics everybody wants to see him ski.  At one clinic, he could not run 35.  He missed the first time, went out the front the second time and said it was a momentous fall.  Said the driving was that bad.  With this guy driving, I ski great.  In fact, I was convinced that he was helping me.  He swore that the passes were legit with legit path.  He told me and told me and told me that the trouble when I skied at home was the driving and that he sees it in practically every club he goes to.  

 My driving could certainly be improved and I am not one of the skiers who has run 38 or 39.  I can tell you that with the driving I get where I live, I never will be.   I would love for a top driver to produce a video that teaches driving and teaches us why it becomes so critical for the skier at a certain point.  I just think that we need to raise the awareness level so that drivers will at least start to try to get better and so that they will come to understand that they are killing the skier behind the boat who is busting their ass to get to the next level.  I am sure that some of this sounds negative and it is born out of frustration.  I would just love for folks to embrace the idea that they can play with their fin 24/7 but, if the driver they are skiing behind sucks and, further, does not strive to learn to be better, they are chasing their tail.  Two of the best driver's that have driven in my area are guys who aren't great skiers.  One could barely run 15 the other 28. However, they put in the effort and had the consideration to learn to drive.  By the way, they were welcomed with open arms by slalom skiers wherever they went.

A lot of the driving I do is without a passenger.  Every single time, I have an observer in the boat, I ask them to watch the driving.  I need to get better.  If somebody gets even one bad practice pass behind me, I am sorry.  I recognize how much effort goes into their training.  If a skier says something to me about my driving, they are not rude, they are merely helping me get better.  How many times do you ask the skier about your driving and whether they see any room for improvement and something that you could do better?  Are they the asshole for suggesting that you could improve, or are you the asshole for thinking that you don't need to?

[DW]

I would certainly agree that every well executed pass owes a lot to the boat driver.  It is hard to get anybody excited to be a great boat driver, it is not where the glory or mostly the reward lies, plus it is all voluntary so someone has to really want to be a good driver.  You also have to consider, IMO, that since automobile driving skills are also not valued in this country, that perception will cross over to boat driving.  There is a surprisingly small percentage of people in this country that can operate an automobile within 50% of it's capability and that won't change with the entitlement mentality found here.  Boat driving is not looked at as a skill that needs to be learned and practiced then executed every pass pulled.  Certainly, there are a handful of people that take it seriously and always do their best to provide an excellent pull with them at the wheel.  I guess one thing "we" can all do is thank the driver every time a good pull is given, think about how many times you thank your driver for the pull.  There also tends to be little training offered or given from the driving side, it is usually, engage speed control and drive straight down the path!  Not a lot of time is spent teaching the subleties of how to keep the boat tracking in a straight line when the pull comes from side to side, similar to teaching skid control in an automoble (which is usually thought of as a result of a mistake and should not be done).   Also, we probably all spend a lot more time on the fin compared to the rudder as far as tuning to make the boat track / steer really well, etc.

I must say, I'll take a bad boat driver over a bad airline pilot any day!

PS:  good post, good topic to discuss.  Driving or operating any motorized vehicle is close to my heart and I take pride in doing it well (and as fast as possible).

[Horton]

Ok so we all agree that driving is critial. Who is going to write a solid artical? I would love a video but think that is a bit much to ask.

[kdeupser]

I'll vouch for what a difference a driver makes for myself.  I typically drop anywhere from a half to a full pass.  Being in the Atlanta Waterski club, some times you don't have alot of choice on your driver, and you know, most of our drivers really do a pretty decent job, but it's just the "feel" they put on the rope.  They drive straight, I ride in the boat when others ski behind them, and their line is straight, but it's the steering input they apply that can really bother skiers. 

 I think good drivers really concentrate on how they correct the boat, and are concerned about the feel of the rope.  We talk about this in the club, and the drivers that drive straight, but we all ski like crap behind just don't give a damn on what the skier feels.  It's the crowd of just shut up and ski.  Ironically, everybody I've ever heard say that can't run 15' off.  I've never heard a shortline skier say that, for that fact I have never heard a 22'off or shorter skier say "shut up and ski".

Also, I have gone to many tournaments here in Georgia, and the boat crew sum's you up before you get in the water, and I believe they pull you accordingly.  I've had some real crappy pull's by the same driver that had gone on to pull the 38/39 crowd.  

Driving is tough, I never feel like I do as good as I could do.  I always work at it, and I do my best to feel the boat through the back of the chair.  I'm a deep 32'off skier, my sking partner is a deep 38'off skier and he has a different opinion.  He say's he purposely tries to find other drivers, because he's able to practice more than me, and he'll get another driver, and loose a pass, due to the feel of the rope.  However, before tournaments we usually will only ski behind each other due to experenience.

 We have a club member that was the MasterCraft promo guy in the Atlanta area, and he is by far the best driver around.  I usually ski to my PB with him.  It's hard to ski with him any more, but when he does come around, those who know about him usually will wait to ski behind him.

Great topic, 

Ken

[skidawg]

At 58K you can run 38 w/an inadequate driver, 39 ain't happening unless you are willy, jb, or tower.  That is how critical it is.  It is the difference between a successful set or a ski throwing cuss fit worthy of the Dawg.  39, timing is crucial so one little off side or to much on side (slack) will cost you the pass.  That being said, I am not a bad a$$ driver so no article from me.  Peace,  JD or DEA step up and put some ink to paper.  Peace, I'm goin ride my bike.

[LeonL]

In response to Ken's comments, I find it unconscionable that a tournament driver would give a "less than his/her best" due to the skier's perceived abilities.  As a senior driver (not claiming to be the best one out there) every pass that I drive, tournament or practice, I strive to do the best that I can.  I also constantly seek input from observers and skiers to try to improve.  As far as comments go on driving, quite often I find that the things that a driver does outside the course is a detriment to my skiing. Pull up, rounding turn islands, dropping after a pass -- some are just bad.  Call me a head case, but some of it sticks with me while in the pass.  If the driver is bad outside the course, what can you expect once you get in?  

[skibug]

LeonL makes a great point that the driving outside the course sticks with you.  I can attest to the fact that the pull up and alignment of the boat to the course as you come around the turn island can affect me.  If someone comes around the island wide and has to run a shepard's hook boat path to align with the course; that really screws me up for the pass.  The other thing that really gets to me is if someone over or under  throttles going into the course and I can feel the boat slowing down/speeding up at close proximity to the set up bouys.

[ktm300]

Ken makes a good point.  Attitude matters.  That is the part of my earlier post that sounded frustrated.  It is bad enough that the cat in the drivers seat is incompetent: intolerable that they could care less and make no real effort to improve. 

[DW]

I would also argue that some drivers just can not feel the skier behind the boat, thus can not really react accordingly.  Some people have it and some don't, very much like operating a car.  Some drivers or particularly the better ones, just have a better feel for what is happening with the boat.  That is an additional factor to getting a good pull separate from the attitude.

I agree that every part of the pull makes a difference, particularly as this is such a mental game.  Every aspect including exactly where and how the driver sets the skier down, positions the boat, turns around, tightens the line, and takes off all affect ones pass, along with the pass itself.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Probably the single biggest common factor among the best drivers is an acute awareness of what is happening on the other end of the rope.  If the driver is not 100% in tune with the skier, there is no way they can respond and precisely MATCH what the skier is doing.  

I use to get excellent coaching from my favorite driver and he never snuck a look at me.  He could tell a tremendous amount simply be being aware of the strength and timing of the pulls.  His comments at the end of a pass would go something like:  your pull through the gate was light and long into 1, you were ok going to 2, but turned downcourse and were late on the pull, you were back in shape into and out of 3, etc. etc.  (not buoy by buoy, but his knack of knowing what I was doing and where the mistakes were was uncanny).  

So, step #1 in becoming a good driver is to pay attention and become aware of EVERYTHING the skier is doing, including out of the course, deepwater starts and drops.

Food for thought.

 

PS - Horton, your message formating tools suck.  I can't get the fonts the same, no matter what I do.

[skibug]

I have heard two words in this thread that I am guessing are misunderstood..."react" and "respond" in terms of what the skier is doing.  I am by no means an expert; but, I get a lot of coaching on my driving from my ski buddy who is a professional driver.  He is a 39' off skier and very particular about who drives him and how well they drive him.  He can tell me when I am off and I can actually feel it starting with the pull out.  His main coaching tip is to not get behind the skier, meaning that you have to be proactive (and not reactive) by anticipating and putting the boat in the right position to compensate for the impending load.

 The statement made earlier "Some people have it and some don't" is definitely true; but, for anyone, more time behind the wheel and added caoching is the key, even for those who do have it.

[adam]

An indication of a good driver would be whether they get the boat balanced or not within the first pass or so.  It not only impacts the wake, but also the tracking and handling of the boat.  It doesn't make them a good driver if they do, but it at least shows they try.  It sucks to be a hard puller though.  It is hard to find drivers that will not over compensate or compensate too early.  I am working on the efficiency thing, but it is a slow process.

 Adam

[Chris Eller]

All the great drivers I have driven with from Tommy Harrington, Dana Reed, Les Todd to Will Bush all share several common factors.  They are always learning about the boats, the skiers, new techniques, etc.  As soon as someone "knows how to drive" I personally get worried.  All of these guys have also shown me how important consistency in and out of the course is for the skier in all three events.  Nothing I learned from any of them was taught or told, I learned mostly from watching and constructive criticsm.  A good driver can give you tips, but as many others before me have mentioned it boils down to a feel.  The best way to develop this is pulling all levels of skiers, not just super short line.  Steve Schnitz road in the boat with me driving several times at Okeeheelee and his comment to me that the boat was "quiet" is something that has always stuck with me over the years.  I tell April, my wife, to let the skier drive the boat and not try to fight against them, almost let them put you in the right spot.

 The other huge thing I have learned is how critical a balanced boat is for great driving.  I don't care how good you are a bad boat can ruin your day in a hurry.    At tournaments here in North Carolina we work to get a boat setup that all the drivers for the weekend are happy with driving.  We all work as a team to accomplish this and to help each other at every tournament.  There is some friendly competition, but we all work to help each other do our best.

 As with our skiing practice and passion are huge factors in how well we do and how much we accomplish in the end.

 Just my two cents.

Chris Eller

[MrJones]

I agree with several of your comments.

 

Bruce is totally right about a good driver being able to coach by "feel". (Provided they can coach of course) When I get to ski with Chad it is very similar to what Bruce described. "Too heavy out of 1, lost tension into 2." I really like this because I would prefer to know what I need to fix, then figure out how to do it on my own. 

 

I also like what Chris said about driving in and out of the course. I don't ever want to notice the boat when I am skiing. I am not too picky in the course, but it irks me when the driver does something weird around the turn, in the drop, etc. I am probably strange, but this gets to me a bit. Props to Chris by the way. I think the only time I have skied behind him was at Dana's first big dawg. Sweet Ride!

sj

ps. Have a sense of humor as well. I like to chat at the ends...

[adam]

From what I hear, Chris is a very good driver and I think he just gave us some really good tips that I agree with.  One is to be quiet to the skier which to me translates to never let the skier feel your steering inputs.  The other one is to let the skier steer the boat.  This I take as using the skiers actions and adding as little input as possible to keep the boat in the middle and to get setup for the next ball as opposed to forcing the boat down the middle.  To do this, you have to definitely be in tune with the skier.  I believe you also have to slightly crab the boat a little.  The pylon is the only thing I've ever seen evaluated for boat path.  Even if the boat crabs a little, but the pylon is always centered, the boat propwash path will always be straight.  I believe that this type of driving takes more skill, but the skiers appreciate extra effort.  I also believe the driver can do more damage to the skiers performance than cruise control any day.  At least from my experiences, if there is a choice of what boat or cruise control we get in a ski off, it will usually come down to the one that has a good driver in it.

There are a few outside the course actions that don't impress me with drivers and I've seen few senior drivers that do them regularly.  One is that a driver should be able to get the platform to a tired skier at the end of a set.  I don't know how many times I have to swim to the platform only to have the driver put it in gear to try to help you, but instead take the platform further away from you.  The other is when the driver puts it in gear while you are setting in the water between passes.  It makes the skier feel like the driver is in a hurry and just wants to get out of the boat or get to the next skier.

 Thanks for the tips Chris.

 Adam

[35 in the bag]

Electronically Controlled Steering!I have to ask......and have asked,...... is this the solution?  It is a given that opinions and controversy would follow similar to what we have today with the speed controls, but, given the importance to the athlete's performance in our sport, wouldn't definable, controllable deviations be preferred to what we have now?  Assuming they are "consistently" equal to or better than what we achieve with human input. I hope the technology is close, and that a company (or companies) are willing to do the R & D and bring to market the first of such a system. I would think it may eliminate a hurtle to having water skiing accredited as an Olympic sport. Food for thought,John M.

 

[35 in the bag]

Horton,

How in the world does one get the paragraghs to stay where they a drafted?

[Horton]

35,

You are not the first with this issue. Write in Word or whatever and then paste into notepad and then cut from note pad and then past here. Otherwise you can post, and then hit edit and add your breaks.

This forum is a bit funky but I can not bear to change and lose all the good posts.