Perfectpass - No ZO Simulator

[Garn]

In response to the recent thread about the Stargazer upgrade that would simulate ZO, I have some new information on that.  I emailed Randy yesterday with some questions about Stargazer.  One of the questions was regarding the new upgrade.  This was his response to me....

"The forum chatter is in reference to a software option we were working on to provide a simulator program that mimicked to ZeroOff pull characteristics. It was fully developed and tested when we heard that ZO was incorporating variable pull characteristics to allow users to find a pull that they liked, in other words feel more like ours.  At this time we are not going ahead with that upgrade. "

 So it sounds like there is not going to be a ZO simulator for Stargazer.

 Garn

[MrJones]

This is getting so frustrating. I had been strongly considering selling my '01 nautique and buying a newer DBW boat for ZO. Then, lots of talk about the PP upgrade to mimic ZO, so I am thinking about buying SG for the '01. Now ZO is changing to make things feel like what we had before? Is my old classic PP what things will feel like in 6 months?

Holy crap. How stupid does this all sound! Is it going to be another year of not knowing what your next tournament pull will feel like? ZO wasn't my favorite, but I could get used to it. Please just pick something and STOP! 

sj

[eleeski]

Bummer. Some of us don't like Stargazer's feel. Just because ZO might develop a setting that feels like SG, that does not mean that SG should not develop a setting that feels like old ZO. The old ZO settings will still be available (I hope). SG should try to emulate as many ZO settings as possible.

I have three PP classic boats (I just bought a new complete PP classic system this month!). If SG had a ZO "C" emulator I would purchase 3 Stargazer units! I would even purchase and use switches for the boats if that is needed to emulate ZO. That is quite a bit of hardware sales. Please, PP, continue to develop and market improvements and options!

I am working really hard to get a ZO boat for my personal boat. Till then I'll train as much as possible behind Stan's boat - on the ZO option. When I have to ski behind my boat I will use PP classic KX- PX10 with a working switch and warm times.

Question: is there a way to have SG get baseline RPMs for PP classic and switch from SG to PP classic easily?

Eric

[RichardDoane]

Stargazer has 4 modes for slalom: Calibrate, Practice, GPS Slalom, and good old PP Classic. Your baselines for PP Classic are the same for GPS Slalom mode. To switch between is very simple, just select the mode in the "settings" menu for slalom. But of course in Classic, you'll have the ability to manipulate PX, and add/subtract rpm for correction. But why not just succumb to the technology advances of GPS, and run 95's all day ?

[eleeski]

What about KX? And does SG utilize the switch? When my switch was broken, PP classic felt horrible - regardless of setting.

Also, setting the baselines is critical for a good pull. If you can have SG set the baselines, the pull in classic will be easy to make great.

Eric

[Old MS Accout]

I have a 08 Nautique for sale.

[RichardDoane]

GPS Slalom does not look at switch input, only PP Classic does. The Seattle Boat show is this week, so after I get some some sticker shock, that 08 CC may look like a bargain.

[Director Darwin]

Scot:

Nothing Perfect Pass does will emulate ZO to any great extent.  The way the systems operate are so different that it is nearly impossible.  That said, if you are chasing an identical feel boat to boat, it doesn't exist.  We have two identical Nautiques (2007 & 2008) on my lake and each feels somewhat different.  Therefore, I would recommend getting a slalom switch, set your PP to classic mode, KX minus and PX 10 or 15.  This will give you a somewhat similar "feel" to ZO.   Otherwise, you'll be faced with the same decision I made in August - upgrade.

[Roger]

The whole point was for PP to emulate ZO so that people with pre-2007 boats could practice with something close to what they would get in a tournament. The fact that ZO has introduced new software for their pull is irrelivant to those with pre-2007 boats.

Joe, I don't know that with a software driven system, you can't change it to at least be closer to the ZO feel (Don't know that you can either of course). As for your PP Classic settings with the switch, I agree that KX- and PX 15 are close, but only close to A. For me, I use KX+ and PX 15 which (to me) feels close to B, which is the setting I like best on ZO. Me and a ZO owner tested this with back to back sets between his boat and mine and we both arrived at the KX+ PX15 setting as being the closest to ZO-B (the 1,2,3 setting had not been introduced yet).

On the latest ZO, I now like B1. However, I have not had enough time to try and mess with PP to feel like B1.

 

[RichardDoane]

Eric - on my Stagrazer system (carb'd 92 MC) KX is adjustable.

[Phil2360]

Latest Info off Perfect Pass's Site:-

http://perfectpass.com/perfect_pass_whats_new.html

 Phil

[ktm300]

I have no financial interest in PP whatsoever.  I am not typically a brand loyalist.  PerfectPass has provided GREAT customer service to skiers for years.  They are honest, openly acknowledge problems and follow up with corrective action, communicate with their customers such that we don't have to "know somebody" to figure out where they are going with their product, have an informative website backed up with prompt email and telephone response and they produce a speed control system that will work in everyone's boat.

Understanding that this topic is worn out, I still cannot get over the fact that a very small number of people have been allowed to force a system on skiers that does not operate but in a very low percentage of boats.  I know, I know, I know it is simply a business matter regarding patents.  Fine.   Not being a fan of government, I am cool with AWSA's laissez faire position.  However, in keeping with that position, boats going back to around 2003 or so should be approved to pull tournaments.  Then, people like me who don't much like being manipulated could make a business decision to avoid ZO, refuse to buy a new 40k boat and be happy to ski tournaments hosted by those with similar sentiments and who choose PP.  By dictating the year model of boat allowed to pull tournaments, AWSA is being anything but laissez faire and is ensuring (or attempting to ensure) a market for ZO.  

[Horton]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for posting that link. This a subject I really care about and I think the skiers need to understand. I just posted the PP statement on the front page. 

[quimbola]

According to PP the new "chip" upgrade is available now, not on the website but you can email them.

Anybody take the plunge yet?

[RichardDoane]

I emailed Dave @ Skiertoskier.com last week, and had him put me on the list for the "plug & play" Stargazer Upgrade as soon as they are available.  Will keep you posted.

[quimbola]

According to Gary at PP they are being shipped.

[skibug]

What is the cost??  What is the upgrade??  Why should I spend the money to upgrade my StarGazer??

[RichardDoane]

I heard a rumor that the "plug and play upgrade" would be about $75. But I'll know for sure when I'm billed, and the thing ships. If you're skiing tournaments then it's nice to have the latest speed control to practice behind, and for rated drivers it's also nice to be familiar with what the promo boats have.  SG now has 2 more settings for skier weight, in addition to the L for light, and N for normal, there's F for featherweight, and X for skiers over 200 #'s that really pull.  It also can be engaged earlier off the turn island, so better for short set up lakes.  I'm installing one today in a buddy's Malibu, hopefully we'll make it to the lake this afternoon for calibration and testing of course.

[quimbola]

Here is what Gary at PP wrote:

A few tweaks: 1.       No need to disengage in the turn.2.       New settings for H (Heavy Skier) of F (Very light skiers)3.       Less Servo Roll Back on mechanical systems.

Hope this helps!!