Whats the most popular hardshell? Reflex?

[Boody]

I've been on FMs for several years now, but I have come to the realization that you don't "need" a hardshell rear boot.  I am also seeing lots of folks on the Reflex and am now curious about them.  What hardshells are people using on this forum, what are the most popular rubber bindings for the rear?

[GMC]

I have been using FMs for years but my next set of bindings is likely to be a Reflex front/Wiley rear.

[Old MS Accout]

I was thinking of trying the reflex front with a Wiley rear, mounted on the G10 plate. When I saw the news of Scotts injury, I backed off a bit. Maybe another year on the Approach.   

[Director Darwin]

I have been on hardshells for approx 6 years.  Started w/ Powershells due to the low cost and demo program.  Stuck w/ them until 3 years ago when I put FM boots on the Goode plate.  Continued using dual loc until this year when I simply mounted a custom G-10 plate directly to the ski.  I found I was using so much dual loc that the plate wasn't going to release anyway.  Safety concerns got the best of me and I began to look at options.

I've always considered the Reflex system to be the safest and most reliable.  About a month ago, I made the switch to a Reflex front and HO rear.  I found the Reflex front is much more responsive than my FM's and I have not missed having a rear hardshell whatsoever.  After 2-3 sets, I was back to my average buoy count.  My daughters have used the Reflex on their trick skis for the past 6 years w/o incident.  The product is durable as well as reliable.  If hardshells are your choice, I believe the Reflex system is the best available.   That said, DO NOT buy them from Remi / reflexworld.com.  Bennett's is about 40% less than Remi and they won't screw you on the shipping either.  www.skibennetts.com or call Ace at 225-654-9306.  Ace is very helpful and will make certain it is set up correctly before sending to you.  

[eleeski]

The Silveretta heel clip (on the Reflex and some other systems) will release. Sometimes it will pre-release. The Reflex system only works on one boot. If you use a toe kick, it is perfect - you'll come out safely even if it's early. Of course the system won't release from the toe so some falls are unprotected.

Wiley's stay on pretty well. I'm not sure it is possible to get a balanced release between the Reflex and a Wiley's so that everything comes out at the same time.

A problem trickers encounter with the Reflex is that the release tension changes over time. Boots squish, plates warp and springs soften so that the release tension is lowered. Of course, trickers fall (and release) more than a slalom skier so the system gets worked a lot more.

I don't really like a rear hardshell, but my feet hurt too much in rubber. I modified my rear shell to make it move more like rubber. I removed the cuff clip and replaced it with a rubber band (racing bike innertube). This allows lots of ankle movement (and some extra ankle protection?) but gives a similar release for both boots.

Nothing will be perfectly safe. Lots of skiers use the Reflex front / rubber rear and have not been hurt. Who am I to worry about safety? I bolt my hardshells directly to the ski. Of course the cheap soft boots I use break apart in a bad fall (happened twice this season - behind SG - but no injuries). I do quad tighteners to protect my knees, any exercises to strengthen and protect the ankles?

Eric

[skibug]

What about the FM E-series?  Any comments?

[cliveous]

Eric, you say the release springs soften. would it be better to store hardshells attached to clip or unattached?

Is there anything we can do to prolong the life of the clip? 

[eleeski]

Snow ski bindings recommend backing off the springs in the off season. The Silveretta clips do not last forever and the springs will usually outlast the rest of the hardware. Just check the settings frequently. Additionally many trickers run the springs fully compressed so the flex of the boot and plate defines the release.

Scrounge a spare clip so a failure doesn't ruin your season. Horton got me one pretty reasonable a few years back. Lots of people have older systems floating around that you might find. If you are a good welder the wires break often - but I haven't been able to successfully salvage one.

I like the FM style snowboard clip toe holder. It makes it easy to adjust for boot variations - but it does hold the toe down a bit more.

Disclaimer, I don't use the system personally but I have set up and maintained a bunch of them. I've skied them enough to have a couple of shin scars from pre releases - but I have plenty of scars from my system as well.

Eric

[AK]

skibug, E-series is an option. The advantage is that it is lighter over the standard FM system, (they claim the lightest, I don't know about that) but it does not offer the simultaneous release that the standard system offers. Each boot releases separately (the cuff releases in fact) much like a rubber boot.

I use the standard FMs for years now without any problems, however one must be extra careful installing them properly, otherwise pre-release issues may occur.

The weight of the standard FMs is an issue, but not a big one imo.

 

 

I believe the first question anyone has to ask is if you want a simultaneous release or if it is not that big deal for you, then you select the system that best caters for your needs. If I was not worried about that then I would probably go for skitech - rubber combo, because it is important to me I opted for FMs QD6, other options in this category are Goode powershells (have pre-release issues, but are very light and responsive) and the Fogmans (I have seen them failing many times so I stay away, never tried them myself)

[skibug]

AK,

 Simultaneous release is not an issue for me, I use a rear toe plate.  thanks for the insight.

[scott thompson]

in response to MS's comments, i wouldn't let my achilles rupture steer ya away from the Reflex.  I really think it was just a fluke thing - i finally got to see the video - got over the front way too much, then to the point of tail blowing out and then the tip went right down in the water - apparently just not enough force or the right direction of force, etc. and my achilles went and binder didn't release.  I've pondered what i'll do come next April.  Pretty sure i'm just gonna strap it back on - especially after hearing of achilles ruptures/ankles broken, etc. in Wileys, Power Shells, HO Animals, RS-1's,  etc etc - I'm not sure any one is better than the other.  And as far as achilles goes, and according to the Docs, if you're between age 35-45, thats just when its gonna happen, if it does.

[Old MS Accout]

I am still give it a try just to make sure I am not missing the boat on anything.

[Boody]

At this point, I am going to go with the E-series, double boots.  I am saving my pennies now, 695 bucks!

[LeonL]

I haven't seen anyone comment on Fogmans (except for one kinda offhand comment on many failures)  Are any of you guys on Fogmans?  I'm using a hybrid version.  Fogman release plate w/ Malibu GT in-line skate boots.  The Diablo boots/liners just didn't work for me.  Too responsive for someone who is not as still on the ski as I should be.

[HO 410]

We do know that Jamie B has used Fogman bindings to some measure of success.

One skier I know that uses them, runs the release units so loose that it's almost scarry how easy it is to click the ski on after he has fallen. I've never seen him pre-release, and I'm sure he would tighten up if he did. I think they are a pretty good binding system. If I was looking to do double shells I would at least give them a try, but I'm not particularly sold on any of the doubles.

The failures tend to come in OFT falls correct? Lots of pressure on the tip of the ski moves the release units closer together giving you a higher spring tension and a more difficult release. Part of me says that OTF falls are generally pretty violent and carry a pretty high risk of injury regardless of bindings. Knowing this, I would look at setting the release units more loose than tight.

 

[Horton]

you guys can take my RS-1 boots from me..... when you pull them from my cold dead feet. (you damn dirty ape)

[Lakewaterjunky]

I have been on Standard dual plate FMs for two seasons now after HO animals chewed on my ankle, breaking it in three places in 06 (Bad OTF).

 

I’m nowhere close to the skiing level of most on this forum, but there is no reason for me to change from FM bindings any time soon. They got me back on the water with confidence and provided more control & balance over any previous bindings hands down.

 

Released four times fairly violently and once softly this year with no problems.

 On one occasion, my wife got back to me quickly with a worried expression on her face and the kids were standing up before the boat got stopped, asking if I was O.K. because it looked so bad.

 

She’s a nurse and doesn’t want a damaged husband on crutches again I’m sure.

 

The FMs have worked out great, I highly recommend them. 

[RS]

+1

I've been on FM since the 03 when he started with single plate skate boots (those weren't all that great).   The liners make them super comfortable and I've never had a wreck where the bindings didn't release when they should have.  I also have never had a pre release but I run mine a little tighter settings than spec.   These particular boots have been in use for 5 seasons and they are still in great shape.   Once you get these figured out in terms of your own personal settings they rock. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bhs]

Anyone out there with FMs or Reflex that could tell me about maintenance? After you get them dialed in is there anything else to worry about? And how many seasons are you getting out of the shells/liners?

 

And now a question for the grand master of the forum.... Mr. Ball of spray himself, why did you get off hardshells? I think you were a dealer at one time and I would like to know what your experience was.

[Boody]

I have been on the FMs for 4 years and so has my wife.  They have been maintanance free for the most part.  The only issue arose when I went to an HO ski.  The rear plate that attaches to the ski tends to bend.  This is because of the ski mounts are too far back from the release, if that makes sense.  It does still work, but its not ideal.  A single plate eliviates this issue.  Other than that, no issues and no maintanance.

I am planning on getting the FM E series, but the budget commitee (wife) shot down the proposal.  Apparently, there are not enough funds in the biannual budget so I can't get this proposal passed until next fiscal year.  I am trying to get an "emergency clause", arguing that the said account will be replenished in a timely manner.  The Budget commitee is has taken it under advisement and is in recess.  A decision date is not known at this time.

[Director Darwin]

I used FM boots on and off for 5 years.  I first used the entire system and then when Goode's became "undrillable", I installed a pair on a G-10 plate and dual-locked the plate to the ski.  I still have a G-10 plate w/ FM boots mounted on them if someone is interested (cheap!).  What I liked best about the boots is how durable they were.  I didn't care for the mounting/release system - too bulky and not consistent - the release pin would stick over time.  But overall, not a bad system considering the alternatives in the marketplace.

[ktm300]

I have used an FM front and Wiley rear for 4 years.  It has worked great.  Never pre-released.  I did run dead center over a buoy and it did not release and hurt my ankle but, I had the release tighter than it should have been as pre release is what scares me more than anything else.   I like the shell itself because it sits completely flat i.e. the bottom does not have curvature like the Reflex.  The only issue that came up was that the HDPE plate onto which the boot is mounted developed a stress crack in year three.  Just replaced that and was off and running again.  Wim Decree makes a front hardshell that will be my next binding purchase.   Very cool.  It takes him so long to make one, I doubt he makes any money on them but, he got tired of watching people get injured on other systems so, created an improved product.

[GMC]

bhs - I just replaced my liners after 4 seasons of Michigan skiing.  The boots are that old too; the new ones may look nicer but there's nothing wrong with mine.  This year I went from the FMX plate to the screwless plate when I got a 9800 so the only original items left in my setup from the original purchase are the shells and the plates they are mounted to.  I have very high levels of confidence in my setup and the only thing I don't like about the system is the mass...  But I'm not sure that matters.  It does seem kinda funny mounting up that heavy system to a featherlight Goode though.

As for maintenance, the only thing I do is occasionally check the pin gap.

[RS]

Mine are virtually maintenance free other than I did have to replace the old style plastic plate as it did crack 2 years ago.  I don't think the newer plates will crack as they are reinforced and a different material.   They say to replace the liners after a couple years but mine are the originals from 03, they are looking a little worn but they still work great.  I didn't do anything to my system the last two seasons.  Previous to that I had the plate break but really once you get them set up they are good to go.  The boots are bullet proof.  Heavy yes, but extremly durable.

You have to like to tinker a little bit as it's not quite as easy as screwing 10 screws on the ski and you're ready to go but it isn't all that difficult either.   One of my original mounting plates looks like Swiss cheese as I have used it on so many different brands of skis.  Now with the FMX plate you don't have to mess with that.  I took some time getting the degree of free rear boot rotation just right.  I found that little bit of rotation alleviated all of my knee pain from skiing.  When I tighten it down so it won't move my knee tells me about it after 1 or 2 sets and it didn't matter whether the boot was mounted straight or angled. 

[MattP]

I want to make the switch to a Reflex front binding with RTP I am using an O'Brien Contact front binding with a O'Brien RTP. I can't stand my Contact and I need to change. I am thinking that I will keep my RTP and just buy a front Reflex. How much should I be looking at to spend? or where can i get it at a lower price than reflexworld.com?
Thanks

[lkb]

Try the pro shop at Bennett's. I don't know their contact info and have never bought from them but someone told me they were a lot cheaper than reflex.

[roberto]

Anyone using the FM Revo single boot (system R--  the toe and heel plate and an RTP for slalom)? I would be intersted in your views.

[roberto]

Brent

I am looking for a hard shell for next season. I have looked at Goode,Reflex and the FM Revo.  Safe Release is my prime concern, having damaged my ankles as a youth on Dirt bikes. I currently use an animal front and a RTP. I  never use the draw string, just step in. At the start of the season I use Baby oil on the front foot just to make sure! A recent photo showed how much I was levering the binding open, my leg and ski were far from perpendicular. This is the driver for the hard shell,  to get better edge control. 

The Goode looks great, but I guess you have to take a few falls before you know how much dual lock to use.

The reflex possibly the most popular, looks good,although there is a lot of metal work standing up waiting to take a chunk out of you.

I like the look of the Revo type R. The Revo toe / heel block system looks low profile, step in step out system.  I guess the questions are how safe have you found them, are they easy to set up, after a tumble is just a case of getting on the platform and clicking back in?

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Regards 

 

 

 

 

[roberto]

Brent

 Thanks for the review, very helpful.

I did look at the evolution series, what puts me off is climbing back on the platform, release the elastic, re-fit the cuff, tighten up etc,etc. With my current set-up I am usually ready to go by the time the boat gets back to me!

(After exiting stage left, the last thing you need is the ritual humilation of getting dressed again on the platform in front of your mates who are already beside themsleves laughter!  Or, the wife saying, are you alright dear, that must  of stung a bit! No! Wasnt as bad as it looked, knowing very well you'll be lucky to stand up straight the next day.)

Thanks for the advice, looks like Santa is bringing me a Revo.

Regards

Roberto