Radar RS-1

[Roger]

"You guys think the whole floating plate thing is for real. I spoke to ER yesterday and he was telling me I need to use the washer/spacer with my RS-1."

I do. I just mounted up the RS-1's I demod a couple of weeks ago and used the new threadless stand-offs that ER sent me (I have a Fischer and the metric screws will not go through the original threaded standoffs without drilling. The new standoffs will all be threadless). When I demod them, I did not want to alter the hardware, so I just screwed them on without the standoffs.

I skied a set on Friday and was getting some fall-in on my on-side, so decided to rotate the front boot back towards center to see how it effected things. I removed the middle two holddown screws first and was easily able to slide the whole plate back and forth. I believe the floating plate does work if you install the hardware correctly. I ran several 28s and 2 32s pretty comfortably on the next set. Haven't tried 35 yet, that will be sometime this week or next weekend. I was running 35 more than 50% of the time on my Bio/wiley combination, so it will be interesting to go up the line once I'm really comfortable with the new edge control I'm experiencing (they are definately transferring my movements to the ski more positively than the rubber boots did).

No, I have not taken a brutal fall yet, but I don't take that many anyway. Most of my falls are stalling the ski or overturning and letting go. I did force the bindings off at an extreme forward angle without loosening the laces though and am convinced that if I take that dreaded forward fall, I will come out. I do loosen the laces to extract my foot (and liner) after a set, but this is to save wear on the laces, not because I can't get out otherwise.

I wear the front binding just past snug and the rear binding just snug. I have a set of the green superfeet from my snowski boots in each liner.

My biggest problems so far is not taking the soap with me to the platform and remembering that I don't have to shake the soap out of the bindings once in the water /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif

One other thing to look out for is when putting the liners back in the boots, don't get the vertical stiffener caught under the liner. I did this on my last set and couldn't figure out why I was skiing so badly...

I'm giving them at least three weeks without looking back. I believe I will not be going back to my rubber bindings and it's only been three sets since I bought them. I'll report here as I progress and answer any questions I can.

 

[Horton]

I added small Zip ties to my upper laces to I get the same amount of tightness every set. With one zip on each lace I just pull the cord lock down until it hits the zip and I am set. My goal is to get them as tight as I can but be able to just pull the ski off. Now I think I really got it.

[Joe McCreary]

What do you recomend the best way to put RS-1 on a goode ski w/out drilling holes?  Do you have to use the plate provided by goode? 

[Director Darwin]

You can purchase the Goode plate for around $150 or a G-10 plate from me cut to the same spec (less binding pattern holes) for less than $50.  The Radar boots will convert easily to this plate and without all of the Goode-specific holes/slots.  And since you are not concerned w/ a release spec, I would put two strips of dual loc 400 on the plate matched to two strips of 250 (clear) on the ski.

[HO 410]

Hey Joe, 

What kind of benefits, other than reduced weight, are there with making your binding plates out of G-10?

 

 

[Director Darwin]

1.  G-10 is much easier to work with from a design and machining standpoint.  It's a perfect product for the purpose we are using it for.   I'm not certain that there is a reduction in weight compared to aluminum - depends on quality / thickness of the aluminum plate.

2.  Once aluminum is bent it loses a portion (could be significant portion) of its tensile strength.   G-10 can bend and retain its original shape without any degradation of its integrity.

3.  Dual loc adheres to the G-10 better than aluminum.

[Roger]

For those who have been wondering, I took an out the front Saturday with my RS-1s and came right out. Basically stuffed the ski into my offside after a less the perfect turn off 1 ball (35 off). I was really late and fast into two and just stuffed it in as hard as I could to see what would happen. The ski stalled around the buoy and I kept heading towards 3 ball. Just me and my liners that is...

I am now skiing with even more confidence in this system as that is the type of fall that scares me. I skied 5 sets this weekend after making a rear binding adjustment (moved binding back one hole and took 1/8 offset out). I'm now running my 28s and 32s comfortably and begining to foray into 35 again. Once I'm running 35 again, I'll be a happy camper. I'm pretty pleased that I've done this well this soon as I never advanced this fast on my previouse attempts at moving to hardshells (Goode/Fogman).

Props to Eddie Roberts who responded to a post in the other forum about the threaded hardware and mailed me a set of offsets without threads so I could mount the system to my Fischer (metric threads) properly. I got the hardware before the bindings arrived.

BTW, for someone moving from other hardshells to these, it would seem it's an easier transition as Jon Travers ran 3@41 this weekend on RS-1s!

 

[Horton]

If we could only get Eddie to register here and post here . .  .

Eddie Click here   http://ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/people.php?PostBackAction=ApplyForm

Congrats to the J. Travers!

 

[eddie_roberts_jr]

Roger,

Thanks for "taking one for the team." Although if you took an OTF just to see what would happen, Im a little worried about you.

[Roger]

Don't worry about me Eddie, not an intentional thing I assure you. However, when you have a new setup I think you should push the limits a bit so you know where they are. If I could manage to get my hips where they belong on that side, maybe I'd have just gone on to three ball. Lesson with Chet coming on the 26th; I should be fully acclimated to the RS-1s by then so I can get back to fixing me /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif

Glad to see you posting here, welcome to the forum!

 

[aguylikeshark]

 

That's good that Eddie's here & that is a great score by JT, but why use JT as promo fodder for the RS-1's?  

What about the official factory "design" team? for example how about TMo or T$$ or Rosco?

With Intuition liners they are going to fit well, the shell no matter how it is configured is really a transport device for the liner.  But .....

 

[Director Darwin]

I'm constantly amazed by those who somehow extrapolate the performance of a professional's ski/binding/vest/handle/glove/boardshort/whatever over to their own skiing.  JT could ski 38 on a boat paddle.  So could Andy Mapple.  I certainly appreciate the consultative insight the pro skiers put into assisting in the design efforts of the manufacturers but the fact that Skier A ran 41 on Company B's boots, has very little effect on my ability to get thru 38.  Bindings and skis are a very personal choice and should be undertaken as such.

[Horton]

“why use JT as promo fodder for the RS-1's?”

 Any time a pro level skier uses a product because they want to -  not because of endorsement – that says something about the product.

[Boody]

 

I went to the RS-1s about one month ago.  I am still having trouble getting tip pressure.  The ski is just not finishing with the tip down, it is kicking up a bit at the end of the turn.  I am on the Nomad RC and the holes are one forward to the center mark.  I moved them even more forward but I got diminishing returns, so I put them back. 

I am coming off the FMs.  I am now thinking that the forward aft of the boots is doing one of two things or both: 1) The forward aft of the boots is causing the ski to kick up when I push the ski in front of me at the end of the turn or, 2) The forward aft reduces my ability to input tip pressure by "pushing" with my shins, because they are already leaned forward.

Anyone else have this problem?  Any ideas for fixes?  I was going to add some tip to my fin and try that.

Thanks!

[aguylikeshark]

Jon rides and has ridden tons of different equipment. Which is cool because there are skiers at his level that can't do that for reasons from sponsorship to supersititions.   We (FM) serve the skier and the mission of performance & safety as best we can as Professional Engineers, so we do not stand in the way of the learning process.  I thought it would be a good thing to ride the radars and see what they're all about, since this is a new style of boot that comes from the DNA of Intuition.  It would certainly get a jump for me too since it was the dead of winter and I was waiting for them to hit the stores. Same sort of thing as when Andy was riding his FM boot all over the place for a good year or so. You have to ride stuff in competition for a proper test.

JT has skied different versions of the Drivers, Approaches - you name it. We ask;  he knows. Got a new idea way up here that works, send it down Fedex he's rippin' it the next day.  Most people start with FM's 'cause they got hurt, so did JT. After what 4 years... a world record, tied the Tower's Boys 3 record, #1 skier in the world for his age, first kid to ride hardshells in all three events at the Masters, ran 41 more than most in practice....his ankle is all better now and he can look at different options again.

Same for me - after 8 years my ankle is pretty good but in shooting for top performance, and it's got to be safe. I will not compromise on that.   

 

 

 

[Roger]

RS-1 update: 

After the changes I made last weekend described above, I skied two more sets Thursday night running 2 and 3.5 @ 35 respectively. This was another change as I sanded out the slot in my Fischer so I could mount a standard goode 5 hole fin and fin block. I wasn't having any particular problems with the Fish fin block/fin setup, but through converstation with one of my friends who had the Fish before, he thinks the Fish fin flexes too much in the turn and then snaps back at the finish tending to send the tip towards the boat. Besides that, I want to try the Carbon Fins and the slot wouldn't take them either. Anyway, the ski felt better right away and I'm happy with the change. I ordered an 88 Carbon Fin and will also get a 106 at some point.

I skied two more sets today and I'm beginning to settle down with the binding setup now. First set, 2 28's, 2 32's and 2@35 twice. Second set, 28, 32, 2@35, 3.5@35, and 4.5@35. I expect to run it any set now and to begin running it consistantly within a few weeks if not sooner. I have a lesson with Chet next Saturday and his eyes see all, so that should help.

Two more sets showed up at the lake. A French Canadian skier and another guy down from Michigan with Jeff Smith today. I expect these will be everywhere as time goes on because everyone who sees them seems impressed by the setup and simplicity.

For me, I can now say that rubber bindings are finally history after two previous tries at hardshells.

[countymountie]

They also work very nicely for the 30/32 15' off skier.  I was able to make my first turns in them yesterday in 55 degree water.  My initial thoughts were they gave as much ski feedback as my Approaches.  While somewhat forgiving of mistakes (or maybe it could be the ski not being high end that was forgiving) I had to catch myself after making boneheaded mistakes as far as balance on the ski.  I couldn't be happier with my new gear.

[Roger]

countymountie: I would think they would work for any speed/line length. It's all relative anyway, my issues at 35 are one of my friends issues at 39 and another friends issues at 15. We all strive to move our issues up to the next speed/line length.

So, keep at it and it won't be long before your issues are at 28, 32, 35 or beyond /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif

 

[PSM]

Question for all of the RS-1 users: do you get your boots, feet, or both wet before trying to slide in the first set?  Or just go dry?

We're playing around with a set, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to get in and out.  For out, it just seems like loosening the bungy and pulling foot and liner out is the way to go.

Thanks.

[Horton]

Everything dry.  I think the liners go in better when they are a little damp. Besides that it really does not matter.

[RichardDoane]

I mix a spray bottle with a very thin soapy solution, that way my feet slide in and I don't have to worry about having slippery feet. We have a class C event Sunday, so they may get a "crash test", something I usually won't do in practice.

[Roger]

Chris Rossi skied in our Record this weekend at Okeeheelee Park. He was on the RS-1's of course and ran 3@41 the first two rounds and a few @39 the third round.

I spoke with him about how he wears his. He snugs them down medium tight, both front and rear where I have been medium tight on the front and just enough to take the slake our on the rear. His reasoning had to do with ejection and wanting either both out or both in. I will be experimenting with both at medium tight and probably a bit more rotation in the rear than I have now.

 

[Roger]

I rotated the rear fully (same as I had my rear wiley), rotated the front the other way 1/8th" and put both on with the same level of tightness (about 1" past snug). I skied great last night. Have to thank Chris for taking the time to answer questions on the system!

 

[Joe McCreary]

What is up with the bindings that Rossi and Finalsin are wearing with their new white MPD.  Have they changed the RS-1 Boots also?  Anyone know what has changed from ther old ski and boots they were marketing at Nationals

[Roger]

Nothing, they are Team colors on the liners and only two pair were made. They also have designer plates (color pattern on the plates), but they are the same boots and liners you buy from them. I talked with Chris Rossi at our tournament this weekend about this.

 

[PSM]

After a couple of weeks of use, I'm still struggling with toe discomfort on my front foot (big toe). 

 I've heat molded the liners 3 times, each with more "toe caps" and stuffing to try and "pack out" that area for relief.  My shoe size is a 10.5 normally, so I purchased the 11 RS-1's.  The rear boot feels great.

 Has anyone experieced similar, and if so, any ideas for remedy?  Maybe I just need to "suck-it-up", and the pain will go away eventually? 

 It's right where the nail meets the skin (cuticle) on the medial side of the big toe.  But it's not an in-grown toe nail.

[auskier]

in all seriousness cut your nail and have a dig around and see if it makes a difference if you havnt done so already. sometimes its crazy how the smallest amounts of pressure from new shoes etc can cause discomfort in areas like that. try it, im a podiatrist...

how tight are you doing the elastic laces up? perhaps going a little tighter may stop your foot moving forward as much and stubbing your toe into the front of the liner.

id say the liner will continue to push out and soften up so should reduce eventually, but i dont have much first hand experience with the new boots yet. that will change come october

[Chuck_Dickey]

Wrap your toe with tape to make it 1/4" larger / poke up more when you heat mold the liner. This should force the liner to mold an indent / relief area for your toe nail.

When I stand bare foot on a hard surface my big toes sort of slope upwards, so I have to do this method to keep from loosing my toe nails.

If the shell its self is pushing down on your toe, check with Eddie Roberts to see if the shell is moldable.  You may be able to heat the tip of the shell and get relief this way.

[PSM]

Thank you for the responses.

I've seem to alleviate the problem by wrapping my big toe with 2 pieces of duct tape before skiing.  If I protect the end of the nail, and then around the cuticle, it seems to provides relief.

It doesn't appear to be an issue with shell volume, more so just the liner just being snug and irritating for my particular toe and nail shape.  A minor problem for me, but not enough to affect my satisfaction with the boot system.  They really ski amazing.

Thanks again.

[kpickett]

I set up my RS-1s today on my Monza.  I got them fitted yesterday, and I just took my first sets.  I'm having a really hard time.  I wonder if anyone has some suggestions. 

 By the end of last season I was running 28 at 34 pretty regularly and a few balls at 32.  I'm on a Monza with the slot fin and mini-wing set up to Schnitz's specs. I've been running Animals.

I'm trying the RS-1s because my feet always cramp up in the Animals.  The RS-1s feel great on my feet, but I'm having trouble with set up.  I run my Animals one hole forward.  I measured and set up the RS-1s at neutral - it seems to measure the same as Animals one forward.  My first set was a disaster.  I can barely make my start, and I couldn't even run 15.  I was wheelie-ing all over the place.  Second set I moved forward one hole.  I'm still having trouble on my deepwater starts.  I ran all my 15s, but they felt really sketchy.  The ski felt really squirly.

 What do I try next?  Move the bindings again?  Change the fin set up?  What about the start?  I really love how these boots feel on my feet - but I'm not sure what to do.

 Thanks in advance for any advise.

Kyle Pickett

[Old MS Accout]

Its all in the boots and not ski set up. If you were running into 32 last year, it sould be alright.

The liner will cause your feet to be in a differant place. You need to have your front and rear heal in the same spot as they were in the animals. You cant measure from the outside of the shell if you have a thick liner.

Keep moving your bindings around until you find the sweet spot. Make sure your toe spacing from front heal to rear toe is the same space as the animals.  

[Hoover]

Run them a little loose.  You are coming from rubber bindings, and now have control of hardshells.  You will transfer every body movement to your ski with them on the tight side.  This will definitely cause it to feel very squirly.

[Roger]

Kyle,

1st, re-mount your animals, put them on, and have someone mark your ski (tape will do) where the center of your ankle bone is (the part that sticks out).

2nd, mount the Radar boots so that when you're in them, your ankle measurements match the animal measurements. This may require moving the back binding closer or farther from the front than you have it now (I had to move my rear Radar binding back one hole).

3rd, if you had your rear animal rotated at all, do the same with the Radar rear.

4th, check the front Radar binding to make sure it is exactly straight on the plate. There is a little mark if you look directly at the front of the binding to line it up.

Give any transition to hard shells from rubber boots at least three full weeks or 24 sets. It takes time to adjust to the fact that your movements are transmitted to the ski in a more positive mannor than the rubber bindings did.

 

My experience: I was afraid to do too much, so I just rotated the rear about 1/8 inch and left the front straight (I thought). I had difficulty running any of my normal passes, though I could get through them. At the suggestion of a friend on hard shells, I measured where my ankles were with my rubber bindings and had to move the plate back one hole and the rear binding back one hole from the front binding to match up. I skied better immediately, but still not up to my norm. Then, at the Okeeheelee tournament two weekends ago, I talked with Chris Rossi about what I was feeling. I had my front binding medium tight and my rear just barely snug. If I wore the rear tight, I could not run a pass. He said he prefers both bindings medium tight and asked me if I rotated my rubber bindings. He suggested rotating the rear as much as the rubber binding and wearing both bindings at the same medium tightness. While rotating the rear, I checked the front and found it was actually toed in slightly rather than straight. At the suggesting of the same friend as before, I rotated the front binding 1/8 inch toward the toe. Wow! I am skiing easily as good or better than I was on my rubber bindings.

Bottom line: Start with the steps to get the initial setup as close to what you had on rubber as possible. Then ski a lot and don't be afraid to try some different settings (minimum of 3 sets on each setting change with someone who knows what they're doing watching you).

I'll never go back...

 

[kpickett]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Roger, I'll try your measuring suggestions.  I know I need to give them many more sets.  They are so comfortable, but it was really frustrating not to be able to do much at all. 

I don't know what the deal was with my starts.  It felt like I couldn't get my knees up to my chest.  I'll have to spend more time on that, too.

[ISP6ball]

Kyle, whats the update on the Radar's?  I have a monza with approach bindings, and have been thinking about switching to the RS-1's?  Are you back to skiing sets like you were when running on your Animals, or are you still trying to get them figured out?

 Also, my shoe size is a 9 1/2.  You guys that have them do you recommend I go with the 9's or 10's?  Thanks

[Edmund]

I got my RS-1's last week.  My shoe size 10.5 and went with size 11 RS-1's.  The length was just about correct: perfect for my right foot, and had to make a little more room for my toes when I heat molded the left boot. [see another post on how I molded them at home.]  My guess is that you need a size 10.

[kpickett]

ISP6ball,

I gave up on them.  I was really sorry to do it, because I think they're amazingly designed.  They were incredibly comfortable (which my Animals are not), and I totally trusted them to release.  I just couldn't get tip pressure on the ski.  I had them all the way forward, and it felt like they needed to go even farther forward.  It's probably a problem with my skiing and not the boots, but they just didn't seem to work for me.  I wasn't even beginning to get consistent.  However, at least one other guy at my club tried them, and he's ordering himself a set.

On the other hand, I tried a Connelly F1 around the same time, and after two sets I was back at my PB.  So, I'm ditching the Monza and buying an F1, which I'll use with my Animals.

Definitely go a size bigger - I wear just under a 9 and the 9s were pretty short at the toe.  We got them packed out in the heating, but I'd go bigger if I were you.

Kyle

[Horton]

Follow up

When I first got the RS-1 boots I was a little worried about how tight I was lacing them. I was worried about over tightening. Now that I have been in them for a while it is second nature and I like the boots more then ever. I am plenty snug and come out easy.

I gave up on the super feet in the liner because it stiffend the liner and changed the release. I think Eddie has his in the boot / under the liner.

[RichardDoane]

So have you taken a major crash yet, and if so - did you come out ?

[Roger]

I have green superfeet in my liners. I've taken two major crashes, one out the front after burying the tip in the turn, both feet out. One out the front through the wakes, bruised ribs, both feet in. It works the way I want, either both in or both out...

Tonight, I was rounding 2 ball at 35 and the slider plate that holds the back of the binding plate down broke completely off the ski. I heard a loud crack when it happened. The screws and standoffs were still attached, just the cover plate is missing. I used HO cap washers and the existing standoffs to mount the rear the same as the front until I can get a replacement, but this really surprised me as the plate looked pretty solid.

 

[RichardDoane]

I use the rear boot hold down from my old Approach boots, it's big and strong and I've had no problems.

[Roger]

Richard,

 Does the Radar plate still slide underneath the HO plate? I would think it would if you are using the standoffs, but just checking...

 

Roger

 

[Horton]

yep

[Roger]

John, are you using it also? If so, why... did you have a problem with the supplied plate?

 Thanks for responding so quickly. I have a tournament tomorrow and I'm sure I can get an HO plate from someone locally pretty easily.

Roger

 

[Horton]

No No I think I missunderstood. The plates are not a problem in any way. Some of the early ones were too thin.  Tell me what your issue is. If you need a newer RS-1 plate I can get you one for the cost of shipping.

[Roger]

Ok, here goes. Not the plate that the boots mount to, but rather the little plate that mounts over the boot plate in the rear. It broke right off the ski leaving just the two screws and standoffs still in the inserts. For the time being, I have used two HO cap washers and mounted the rear of the boot plate in a similar fashion as you mount the front of the plate. This works, but I'm wondering if they used a small plate for strength as opposed to using the same mounting as the front uses.

 

[RichardDoane]

Here's a low quality picture, but it's 1000 words ! I do have the "stand-off's" underneath so the flex isn't compromised.

[Horton]

I have extras of the Radar part if you guys really need one.

[Roger]

Richard, exactly the piece I used for the tournament yesterday and will continue to use until the replacement piece arrives from Radar. And yes, the boot plate still slides under it with the standoffs in place.

 

John, thanks for the offer. Radar has already mailed me a replacement and some new standoffs since they are showing signs of wear. Have you looked at yours recently? Mine are showing grooves being worn into them from the plate sliding back and forth (you know, the sliding action that shark says isn't happening...).

 Roger

 

[Thomas Wayne]

I also noticed the wear on my standoffs (and also laughed at how this disproves what the Sproat Lake expert claims).  Instead of replacing the soft aluminum parts with more soft aluminum parts I just machined a set of standoffs out of bearing-grade bronze.  While I was at it I made the base area a bit larger, to increase the bearing surface.  I would expect the plate to wear out before these do.

 

TW