Heel Side - Can't get up on ski

[Horton]

Heel Side - Can't get up on ski http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton So I have been working on all kind so things this spring. Worse then the bathroom scale or the mirror is the video camera. The reality of what that camera shows me is depressing. I see the skier on the TV and think how the hell am I ever going to get my 55k rating and why do the guys on the internet read anything I say . . .

 

So I really struggle getting forward on the ski coming into my heel side (2/4/6) (on side for you old guys). On a lark, I tried to relax as much as possible as I exited 1/3/5. Sounds crazy but finish turn, set up for wake crossing and then relax as much as possible. It was freaking magic. With less muscle tension, my ski swept out beautifully and for reasons I do not understand the rope pulled me up and over the ski as I approached 2/4/6.

 

I had tried this in the past but always gave up because I could not do it on both sides. After I master it going to heel side I may try it on toe side

 

Does anyone understand . . .

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ezOP

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Re: Heel Side - Can't get up on ski tsixam I don´t.

 

Tsixam

 

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Re: Heel Side - Can't get up on ski http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton You do not understand what I am talking about (understandable) or you do not understand why it worked?

 

Whatever . . . I talked to the Dawg this AM and he thinks that maybe . . . with my normal intensity I overload the line so when I switch edges the energy has to go somewhere and it drives the ski too far out in front. When I relax (Dawg thinks) I edge change a bit sooner and the ski is not bound up under me (or something like that).

 

All I know is if I can learn to do what I did for a few passes yesterday I will add balls to my high score. Doing it a short rope may be a challenge.

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ezOP

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Get Zero is working MS It works for me.

I took my 07 out for 3@39 last night. It is my new best friend. I think the Nautique sticker is going on it tonight.

 

JTH,

Try relaxing a bit going to one ball. Only bring the speed you need and no more. Get Zero.

 

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Re: Get Zero is working http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton Dam! If I know I was helping you I would have kept it to myself :-)

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ezOP

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4/30/07 11:11 am

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67 MS I have an 06 for you to try. Give that Zero stuff a try. We need to ski.

 

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4/30/07 1:28 pm

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Re: Heel Side - Can't get up on ski tsixam I think we are working on similar things. I am trying to be more patient and (I am imagine myself turning almost all the way into the spray before I hook up) then I try to let the boat do the work and I am more or less just holding on. It seems to be working for me, at least at 32 and 35. I have not pushed it any further so far, but I am pretty sure it will work on shorter lines as well.

 

Tsixam

 

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5/1/07 4:56 am

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intensity ktm300 With genuine modesty, I have this to add. I started this sport much later than most and can run 35 but not 38, yet, so that is my level of skiing. I have been getting some good coaching for two years now. When asked why no one has run 41 at 55, a former pro and us open winner said that it is the last 5 feet. He meant the last five feet to the buoy. The speed dies. When pulling like a banshee out of 1,3 one may very well get to 2,4 sooner but, is that good? I say no. In the earlier discussion on west coast, I asked why would one want to be earlier as opposed to just on time and in sync with the boat. If you arrive at 2, 4 early then your speed dies and the boat moves ahead. With the line tightening up the right hand responds by pulling in. It is hard to pull in the right hand and not end up with weight back. If you come into 2,4 with speed , you can ski back toward the wake without even needing the handle. This allows you to ride the ski more like a skateboard. If you were being towed on a skateboard you would never pull your right hand in as that would cause your weight to fall back. Also the load out of 1,3 unloads on the 2, 4 side and the unload furthers deceleration. I have struggled with my 2,4 and have come to the conclusion that it is related to my speed. The faster the better in terms of my freedom to move into and out of the buoy. When my speed dies, I get stuck, then back, then high load. At shorter lengths, I tell myself to accept the visual that makes me feel late at 2,4. My mind wants the security of seeing 2,4 up ahead of me but, by the time I get there my speed has died off and I am stuck. The best 2,4's I have had were when my mind was reading the visual as late but I stuck to my guns and just kept the speed up and kept moving. When I move with speed, my right hand doesn't try to pull the handle in. I read your post about the Mapple pull like hell and get as early as possible. I have that DVD too. I just question its application to 55. At 58, speed at the buoy is not much of an issue and, since you are moving faster on a firmer surface the support is there such that being early make more sense. What is your right hand doing on 2,4 and is the boat on you at the ball as a result? Are you swinging out of 1,3 or pulling?

 

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5/1/07 6:39 am

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contrarian view eleeski KTM, I'm at least a pass behind you but my issues are almost opposite yours. I have too much speed at the buoy. At high speed it is a lot harder to turn a tight arc. If I carry too much speed into the buoy I have a wider turn arc which requires more angle through the rest of the pull. Or if I push it and try to force the turn the ski slips out. No, I want the minimum speed that gets me out to the ball at the ball.

 

From a physics standpoint, the cross course speed must be zero at the apex of the turn. Whether it is easier to use turning Gs or time the deceleration of the ski is what we are debating. Marcus Brown has mastered a style that allows him to load the ski to unreal levels and put that energy into changing directions while carrying a fair amount of speed. Scott Larsen looks like he stops dead at each buoy, executes a one handed pullup deep water start to hook up and go. New school / old school both can produce good buoy counts.

 

As far as why relaxing would work, maybe less speed is generated so the turn arc gets tighter. (John go take a set with a big old wing and see if that is similar.) Another factor is that your muscle reaction time may be faster. If you don't have to unclench a muscle before a muscle input is needed the reaction should be faster. Finally, relaxing will seek the natural balance point of the ski and everything is better when you start from a balanced position.

Eric

 

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5/1/07 8:54 am

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Re: contrarian view http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton Eric,

If you feel too much speed at the ball that means that you are most likely drawing a straight line from the wake to the ball. If you do not get out in front of the ball to some extent then it is going to make you feel like you are doing Warp Two. There are different theories on how far in front of the ball you need to be but even skiing by coordinates gets you out there fairly early. If you heading straight for the ball it is a hairpin turn if you carry out in front it can be a sweeper.

 

Long story short . . for my money if you feel that you have too much speed at the ball you either have lack of angle from the previous ball or you are losing it at the second wake. Personally my biggest issue is losing angle off the second wake going into my heal side. If I could nail that down I think the 55k rating is mine.

 

You may have not noticed but most new mass manufactured skis are increasingly fast. . . and I think the wing sizes are not getting bigger . . . I would welcome any extra cross course speed I could get.

 

I am sure the issue is not that random pile of duct tape, bondo and play dough that you call a ski . . .

 

Horton

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Re: With genuine modesty http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton KTM pleeeassse . . . "With genuine modesty" . . . no need. Not only is everyone welcome but I have a feeling that you know more then you let on. Heck, MS is a great skier but has no idea and we put up with him :-) I don't care how long you have been skiing if you can add the discussion we want to hear it. Dude, I pose ideas here all the time hoping that someone will clarify it for all of us or explain why I am wrong.

 

I do wish you would try using paragraphs breaks because I am really paying attention when I read this stuff and it is hard to read those big blocks . . . .

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5/1/07 11:36 am

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Re: intensity http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton

Quote:

---

“why would one want to be earlier as opposed to just on time and in sync with the boat.”

---

 

That is pretty interesting. I am not sure I want to try to ski that way but you do have me thinking. Personally when I get to 38 and the bad habits come out I need every inch. I guess that Andy Mapple early could be a bummer at 55k. Heck I am just looking for an arc from wake-to ball – to wake.

 

As I was saying earlier when I bear down on the rope something in the mechanics of the edge change seems to shoot the ski forward not left (2/4/6/). This gets me to the ball early enough but makes it really hard to get Zero or better. The few times I have really mellowed out before the wakes going to heel side the ski carried out way better then I have ever experienced. For all I know most skiers take this feeling for granted but for me it is new.

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5/1/07 11:46 am

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speed MS I never got past 2@38 until I started to control my speed. I would splash every time after hook up at 2 ball.

Tyler Scott told me I was not standing up and waiting and I could never figure that out. Then Chet told me to ease up going at 1 ball and after that I started to run down the line. The main thing is to keep the ski moving around the ball and to not stop and start. This gets back to my point and JTHs GET ZERO theory. My point on speed is, Keep your minimum speed to its maximum point, keep your maximum speed to its minimum point, that will give you ZERO or as close to it as your style allows.

 

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5/1/07 12:04 pm

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Re: speed http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton I am not sure you understand the GetZero idea or I don’t understand what you are saying/ Get Zero is about staying in the middle of the ski (front to back).

 

As for the Min/Max thing I get what you are saying and think you are dead on (you know that pains me). When I first slowed from 36 to 34 I could not figure it out. Out of frustration I stayed at 36 for 2 extra years. That is why I do not run a wing. I can not imagine needing or wanting to slow down more at 34 mph. I think if it feels fast then you are doing something wrong that robs you of angle. . . . 38 off feels fast because I am a spaz.

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Zero MS I think both Zeros need to be utilized. Balance on the center of the ski down the line to the pylon and a minimum fluxuation in speed.

 

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5/1/07 1:00 pm

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I invented the darn term and I chose to define it http://www.ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gif John Taylor Horton Yea yea but to simplify of terms: “Get Zero” is all about forward and backwards on the ski and nothing else. I invented the darn term and I chose to define it. We have enough trouble understanding this stuff without mixing ideas . . . next thing we will be exchanging fin #s with different methods . . you know what I mean.

 

I like your Min/Max thing now that you re-explained it here. I was not really with you until your post today but now that I understand where you are coming from I think that is super important. I think that it is especially critical with gates/one ball. I hope the new School gate will help with that.

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ezOP

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5/1/07 1:41 pm

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my idea skidawg I think we all need to bag this sport and do something productive!

 

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5/1/07 3:50 pm

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Productive? MS I will dream up a new name for the min max thing. I am sorry for busting in on your gig.

Dawg,

I am only productive in the winter.

Can you pass me your latest Fin set up on the F1? My buddy is dialing in his new F1.

 

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5/2/07 5:49 am

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setting skidawg 6.7575 flat, .77 tail flat, 2.505 (this is for the stiff ski)

 

for the softer flex you might want to deepen it a touch and move it back a touch

 

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5/2/07 6:08 am

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Thanks MS Thanks Dawg.

 

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5/2/07 6:30 am

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Look what I started MS Schnitz has already picked up on it.

this is from his site today.

"Instead, GOD would be using the minimum amount of effort to create the maximum amount of efficiency. Anytime GOD would make a mistake, GOD would have to create load (speed) to make up space and get back on track. Since it is not possible for GOD to make a mistake, the need to create load is non-existent! In our skiing, I believe we should try to emulate how GOD skis. We should use the least amount of energy and ski in the most efficient manner. We should constantly be seeking to improve our technique, our equipment, our minds and our bodies and strive to become one with perfection!"

Thats my stuff.

 

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5/2/07 7:25 am

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[Horton]

41 at 55k six i know Andy ran 2 @ 43 and 4 @ 43, i believe it was in

2002 or 2003 in a C tournament at 55 k and also Dr jim

Micha(ahhh...never mind)

 

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5/2/07 9:58 am

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andy's 41 ktm300 It was at the C lake at Trophy. For me, that doesn't count. Not knocking Mapple. He did say that keeping the speed up was tough. He actually described it as hard to keep the ski in front of him. Same thing; speed dies in the turn.

 

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